The state of Monk in Shadowbringers (long)

[Shurrikhan]

I wonder if Square should have just reworked TK to have the same effect as SSS, I keep reading mostly positive impressions about it, besides asking for it to be oGCD.

I'd prefer to just have back RoW and thereby my TK rotation. We got nothing in their place with their removal. I guess they took (pre-Greased-Lightning-on-RoW, let us note) outcry of "better nothing than Tackle Mastery" both literally and achronistically.

[Shurrikhan]

1. Riddle of Fire still slows us down.
2. Tornado Kick still consumes our Greased Lightning stacks.

I don't remotely consider these problems. I liked the pacing variance brought by RoF (or at least certainly didn't mind it and would have taken it over a smaller damage buff as to come at no cost or potency losses elsewhere), and I liked the 4.2 Tornado Kick rotations precisely because TK was something that demanded synergetic use of surrounding skills.

[guardin]

I don't remotely consider these problems. I liked the pacing variance brought by RoF (or at least certainly didn't mind it and would have taken it over a smaller damage buff as to come at no cost or potency losses elsewhere), and I liked the 4.2 Tornado Kick rotations precisely because TK was something that demanded synergetic use of surrounding skills.

ROF slowing us down is the biggest insult to monks. i get it, some people cant handle the speed (its still not that fast even with gl4 if you ever played other mmos or action games) but there are other jobs for them. We need speed we want speed. 1.0 gcd would be a perfect replacement for rof slow down. Just a full burst of power and speed in an all out mode. Do that and id have no complaints with monk. TK is fine. sure it can be tweaked but ROF is the biggest problem

[Shurrikhan]

ROF slowing us down is the biggest insult to monks. i get it, some people cant handle the speed (its still not that fast even with gl4 if you ever played other mmos or action games) but there are other jobs for them. We need speed we want speed. 1.0 gcd would be a perfect replacement for rof slow down. Just a full burst of power and speed in an all out mode. Do that and id have no complaints with monk. TK is fine. sure it can be tweaked but ROF is the biggest problem

I played at 2.9k+ SkS. I could "handle the speed" just fine. I liked RoF's speed variance and the flexed rotations and sync requirements it forced all the more because I could.

But, by all means, let's make RoF a flat 6-7% damage buff instead so we don't have to occasionally rework our rotation or plan for new SkS breakpoints! Surely that'd feel nice and impactful!

RoF's slow-down is fine. I can only expect that you're not running enough speed in the first place to be able to flex your rotation for it -- in which case, learn to better handle your speed?

On the other hand, TK being a button which, optimally, you use precisely once in precisely one fight is not "fine".

[reyre]

I played at 2.9k+ SkS. I could "handle the speed" just fine. I liked RoF's speed variance and the flexed rotations and sync requirements it forced all the more because I could.

But, by all means, let's make RoF a flat 6-7% damage buff instead so we don't have to occasionally rework our rotation or plan for new SkS breakpoints! Surely that'd feel nice and impactful!

RoF's slow-down is fine. I can only expect that you're not running enough speed in the first place to be able to flex your rotation for it -- in which case, learn to better handle your speed?

On the other hand, TK being a button which, optimally, you use precisely once in precisely one fight is not "fine".

That is a pretty bland argument, however your taste aside there is no logical reason why a buff has such a negative impact on a players ability to use its rotation, and lets be clear RoF is just discount B4B, also "running enough speed"? playing at 2.9k+ Sks really does nothing, after a certain point the gain is minimal at best so that number doesnt tell me how fast you were but how ignorant on the class inner workings you are, having a high SkS is not always the best since you know GL is a thing because after a point it literally does nothing. Either way the only reason that justified the existance of RoF slow down is no longer there ( Double weaving) since now we only have 3 oGCD one of which is hidden behind a very incoherent RNG. Either way speed variance is not a viable thing for this class since its whole point (job quest, descripition and core mechanics) is to go fast, all the time, not go fast some times. Monk hits fast not hard. Anywho the clear lack of direction is FF14 devs fault so i blame them.

[Physic]

That is a pretty bland argument, however your taste aside there is no logical reason why a buff has such a negative impact on a players ability to use its rotation, and lets be clear RoF is just discount B4B, also "running enough speed"? playing at 2.9k+ Sks really does nothing, after a certain point the gain is minimal at best so that number doesnt tell me how fast you were but how ignorant on the class inner workings you are, having a high SkS is not always the best since you know GL is a thing because after a point it literally does nothing. Either way the only reason that justified the existance of RoF slow down is no longer there ( Double weaving) since now we only have 3 oGCD one of which is hidden behind a very incoherent RNG. Either way speed variance is not a viable thing for this class since its whole point (job quest, descripition and core mechanics) is to go fast, all the time, not go fast some times. Monk hits fast not hard. Anywho the clear lack of direction is FF14 devs fault so i blame them.

rof wasn't a dps loss, it was a pretty large dps gain. 30% more damage with 15% speed reduction. that's a straight up dps boost, add to that, ogcds were uneffected, so this allowed you to use them at 30% more damage for no loss to speed. This means rof, is more effective than a flat 15% dps buff if used properly. It was extremely satisying to pull off high dmg combos.

yes, now, without the ogcds, it's not as fun. Sounds like the fast class should have more ogcd skills.

[Shurrikhan]

That is a pretty bland argument, however your taste aside there is no logical reason why a buff has such a negative impact on a players ability to use its rotation, and lets be clear RoF is just discount B4B, also "running enough speed"? playing at 2.9k+ Sks really does nothing, after a certain point the gain is minimal at best so that number doesnt tell me how fast you were but how ignorant on the class inner workings you are, having a high SkS is not always the best since you know GL is a thing because after a point it literally does nothing. Either way the only reason that justified the existance of RoF slow down is no longer there ( Double weaving) since now we only have 3 oGCD one of which is hidden behind a very incoherent RNG. Either way speed variance is not a viable thing for this class since its whole point (job quest, descripition and core mechanics) is to go fast, all the time, not go fast some times. Monk hits fast not hard. Anywho the clear lack of direction is FF14 devs fault so i blame them.

The stat value required to trim a percent of one's GCD decreases with time since the stat cost to trim a single .01 second increment stays basically constant. There is no point at which SkS "does nothing". There isn't even a soft cap for SkS. With Arrow and FW, I would drop below the 1.75 GCD previously assumed to be the GCD lower limit outside of fixed GCD lengths (e.g. the 1.5 psudeo-GCD). I could probably do your non-RoF GL3 speed even when in my RoF. Is that clear enough for you?

But, my all means, point out where in the lore text where it says that a Monk outside of GL4 is not a Monk at all, and why that makes any and all speed variance "not viable".

You can't simultaneously have a "lack of direction" and an absolute and obvious direction which all Monk changes should follow (and whatever complexity be damned in the process if need be, apparently).

A devil's advocate, if you will: Maybe, just maybe, there was a direction in, say, HW or SB Monk... and you simply didn't like what they'd chosen.

Stance-free DoT-weaving for positional management and rotational variance? Nooo, I don't like it so that couldn't be an actual part of what makes a Monk. TK, RoF, and rotational variance? Well that must be outright anti-Monk, whatever the job quests say.

[Physic]

ROF slowing us down is the biggest insult to monks. i get it, some people cant handle the speed (its still not that fast even with gl4 if you ever played other mmos or action games) but there are other jobs for them. We need speed we want speed. 1.0 gcd would be a perfect replacement for rof slow down. Just a full burst of power and speed in an all out mode. Do that and id have no complaints with monk. TK is fine. sure it can be tweaked but ROF is the biggest problem

the idea of rof, is essentially making a more powerful combo time period, it doesn't actually slow you down much if you have gcds. This is essentially when the martial artists shifts from a light speedy style to a heavy hard hitting style, and with ogcds, it was pretty fun.

they could go the opposite direction(faster but weaker), but there would be less synergy with it, since you wouldn't get much advantage out of ogcds

Anyhow whatever they do, they need to focus on making it more entertaining

[Blanchimont]

I feel that much of ShB's changes to Monk did nothing to address the core issues of the class. The same problems from before are still here and it feels like nothing has been done about it. For starters, it is near impossible to carry Greased Lightning from one set of mobs to another because it only lasts a brief 15 or so seconds. This forces you to build it up each time. While Anatman can be used to pause the timer in combat, the fact that you lose it the moment you move makes it absolutely useless outside of raid bosses with long transitions. It is the exact same issue that existed with Riddle of Earth, but slightly better because you don't have to take a hit for it to trigger. This makes it usable in a few other boss transitions where you are not required to get hit. An Enhanced Perfect Form that shortened its cooldown timer would have been miles better in my opinion because I feel much like Riddle of Earth, Anatman will fail its intended purpose of extending GL duration.

Tornado Kick is still as useless as ever. I don't even bother to use it because a back/flank attack with a critical hit will surpass it in damage. The loss of GL just doesn't seem worth it unless you have Perfect Balance to build it up to max again immediately after. Just then, it might be worth it, but I'd rather just save it for the raid transition. Overall, it feels like a skill that doesn't even seem fit for a Monk since the GL loss works against the Monk kit.

[gumas]

i really really hope they fix/balance monk soon, even the jp community are raising their voices about monk