Bard - I miss Refresh :(

[Straynge]

As the title aptly states I miss Refresh. I haven't played that much in Shadowbringers and I still believe the Bard is in a great state - still probably the most coherent of all the classes. There's a reason they didn't mess with the bards that much and that's because they got it right a while back. We've been in a good state for a while now...but with that said I sure do miss having Refresh and no more TP. I really don't mind that they got rid of TP but I just feel I have a lot less to do now which may be a good thing for some people.

Let's face it. half the abilites we lost are rarely if ever used and nearly all of them aren't used that much by a good majority of bards. I noticed over the last weeks how few Bards actually use Refresh, even when a mage or healer is sitting dangrously low on mana. Even less who use Tactician which I use all the time, mainly to help out Tanks who are low on TP. And then there's poor Palisade which is situational but someting I always throw up in holy crap moments like if we lose one healer and the other one's dangerously low or the tank is about to die. Also, now what am I supposed to hit right before a fight since I no longer have Foe Requiem...now that's an ability I use EVERY fight.

Okay, I'm through whining because really that's all I am doing. Losing these abilites is not a game changer and probably helps to simplify a few things but I sure do miss them. I mean it's pretty much just a reflex to use all of these abilites at this point and it was hilarious doing a dungeon the other day. My hand made my mouse instantly go to my missing spot where Foe Requiem is right as the fight started folowed by me trying to hit Straight Shot so i was a few seconds late to the party.

I haven't gotten any of the new abilities yet so I hope they're amazing and I do have a new one called Arm's Length which is nice but it's recast timer is a bit long at 120 seconds. I just hope I still feel like a "support" dps class compared to a pure dps. I love playing the support role even if my support abilities were a bit meager. I still learned to use them for maximum effect.

Anyway, just sad that I'm missing some old favorites but excited for some new abilities. I still have my songs and a few other things that will support a group but I just hope that others are still as excited to see bards in a group as they used to be now that we're missing some of the extra things we used to bring to the table.

RIP:
Arm Graze, Palisade, Refresh, Tactician, Invigorate, Foe Requiem and Misery's End (the first main one I can remember using and an ability I'm really going to miss).

[Lemuel81]

Yes all execute type abilities (Misery's end) are very much missed. I thought it was lame they even removed it. I feel like something is really missing without it.

Overall i feel a less like a support DPS with foes, refresh, etc just gone missing.

[Connor]

I totally agree, and it’s the main reason I’ve not touched Bard yet.

Sure, Refresh/Tactician etc weren’t used very often. Minne got its cast time doubled and Paean rarely sees enough use to make it a selling point for the job. Personally I used Requiem every time I had enough MP to justify it (without cutting into DPS rotation obviously), but I get that most people hate it because cast time means you can spam jump while hitting Heavy Shot (semi-kidding)

My main problem is that we got nothing in return. Like, we got DPS buffs, but what good is that to a job whose role is supposed to be supporting the party (whilst dealing damage etc). And then there’s the fact that a job whose whole identity revolves around music...gets absolutely nothing even remotely music related in the new expansion.

Like, if they want it to be a Ranger then that’s fine, but I really wish they wouldn’t sell the job as something it’s not; a musician with a bow, rather than an Archer with a harp that can only be used every 30 seconds

[moggy]

I totally agree, and it’s the main reason I’ve not touched Bard yet.

Like, if they want it to be a Ranger then that’s fine, but I really wish they wouldn’t sell the job as something it’s not; a musician with a bow, rather than an Archer with a harp that can only be used every 30 seconds

I'm also hesitating to level up a bard for this reason. Right now bard feels a little . . . identity-less? So far, they feel fine to play mechanics-wise. But I think what's still throwing me off a bit is that I'm really not seeing a huge difference between Archer and Bard anymore. Outside of the 3 songs we have left, our remaining "bard"-themed abilities are mostly just huge 180s CDs that have the super basic "flute spin" animation or similar, and all of our new abilities are just straight up Generic Archer 1 abilities. I guess it just would have been nice to see a bit more thought put into our last 70-80 abilities and the bard theme in general.

Boy do I miss busting out that harp and the little tune that went along with it. Alas.

[Xieldras]

I agree with the main title : I miss Refresh.

I also miss Minne and Palissade. These skills helped me out immensely when raiding with my group and they offered extra help for the healers (although Palissade only mitigating physical damage meant it could only be used on tanks for a boss' auto-attacks). Requiem was always used whenever my MP was at full, sometimes I paired it with Refresh on the 2nd time during the fight, sometimes not. Paean does fast cleanse anyone with a cleansable debuff and saves many butts (looking at you people standing on the fire side during Hashmal's fight) and meant I could help shift Healer's focus a bit away from cleansing one person and more on whatever else.

I played Bard for its support set, while still dealing out damage and moving around. We lost half the support kit while only getting more damage in return and I think Square's decision here was simply because they looked at the hard data, saw the amount of Bards not using those skills and simply removed them. I am not going to lie when I'm saying there is a LOT of bad Bards out there simply looking to play Archer with a rotation. You shouldn't have to change the soul of a class because people are too lazy to use their full kit.

All in all, very sad about the changes and going back to Fisher main.

[MOZZYSTAR]

I agree with Lemuel. I feel like less of a support DPS now, and more like a regular support without palisade, foe requiem, MP(/TP) refresh, and so on. Not sure why Misery's End was taken out, and not sure why they took out MP refresh seeing as we still have MP.

[Xieldras]

I agree with Lemuel. I feel like less of a support DPS now, and more like a regular support without palisade, foe requiem, MP(/TP) refresh, and so on. Not sure why Misery's End was taken out, and not sure why they took out MP refresh seeing as we still have MP.

Misery's End was taken out like all execution skills. I do kind of understand their reasoning, seeing as it was only used in the last 20% of the fight, but man I'm going to miss that cool animation. Snapping your fingers as your arrows hit your target, cool stuff.

Refresh being gone is because, If I remember right, Healers have a more boosted Lucid or MP regen. It could also be because Refresh by itself was a reason to pick Bard and they wanted no class to lock a spot on parties (then again, Dancer exists now so....).

[HyoMinPark]

I agree with the main title : I miss Refresh.

I also miss Minne and Palissade.

For what it's worth, Nature's Minne is still in the game. It just has a higher CD now.

However, I too feel as if BRD lost its support identity that I loved so much from the moment I first started playing it. I haven't leveled it any since I swapped to DNC, but my decision to swap my mains in the first place was fueled by the particular hard hit BRD took to its utility (even if it was a necessary one due to how locked it was in the meta). I really miss Refresh and Foe's management - now my MP just sits there unused.

[Zyneste]

Misery's End was taken out like all execution skills. I do kind of understand their reasoning, seeing as it was only used in the last 20% of the fight, but man I'm going to miss that cool animation. Snapping your fingers as your arrows hit your target, cool stuff.

Refresh being gone is because, If I remember right, Healers have a more boosted Lucid or MP regen. It could also be because Refresh by itself was a reason to pick Bard and they wanted no class to lock a spot on parties (then again, Dancer exists now so....).

The only classes that completely suffer the loss of Refresh are SMN/RDM.

Here's to hoping RDM DPS gets pushed closer to the middle of the pack with SMN nearby from the stronger MP limitations put on raise. [350 potency per minute MP regen now vs 447 while in STB with a ranged. ~2,800 MP per minute now vs "then" ~3,570, costing us the MP return of a raise every 3-4 minutes.]

[Xieldras]

For what it's worth, Nature's Minne is still in the game. It just has a higher CD now.

However, I too feel as if BRD lost its support identity that I loved so much from the moment I first started playing it. I haven't leveled it any since I swapped to DNC, but my decision to swap my mains in the first place was fueled by the particular hard hit BRD took to its utility (even if it was a necessary one due to how locked it was in the meta). I really miss Refresh and Foe's management - now my MP just sits there unused.

While I agree Bard was heavily locked in the meta, I personally disagree on the changes brought forward being necessary. Removing a skill instead of a rework or tweak (heck, a nerf if that's what was needed) means sacrificing part of the identity of the class for the sake of balance. To me a skill removal should be a last resort ; then again I'm no game dev so I can only guess and give ideas with the information present to me. For the class, if I had to choose between a few high % buffs or more low % buffs, I would choose more buffs, simply because of more possibilities during situations.

As for mains, I'll probably become a masochist again and go back to Fisher. For dungeons and raiding, I still haven't decided yet so I think I'll level up at least the other classes a bit before choosing. Maybe test out Machinist (RIP Reload and Heat Gauge you beautiful, interesting mechanics that were too clunky to be fun) since I like to move around in the back. Nevertheless, I too am jumping ship for another class.