5.0 WAR is a disappointment

[cjparmen]

Was going to make a long post, but instead I think it's easier to sum it up as: Shadowbringers has been the straw that broke the camel's back for me, and if I were actually raiding this expansion I wouldn't be playing WAR. Not for DPS problems or balance problems, but just because it's now so far removed from the job I loved in ARR that I feel like it's not even WAR anymore. Some people might like the direction WAR has been headed in since Heavensward, but what made me love the job in ARR was the synergy between offense and defense. Slowly, over each expansion, that's been removed in favor of making WAR a DPS that happens to have defensive CDs. I hope the people who enjoy that have a good time with WAR, but it's personally really disappointing to see what happened to it.

i totally agree in some aspects, ARR WAR was pretty bad seeing as at the time the PLD had an tank and a dps stance but it took till HW for the WAR to get it. from HW till now WAR was pretty much the Beat class, you would get aggro the swap stance and reck shit. but now in ShB it feels kinda off, sure its more high risk/reward now and thats good makes me think GCD and CDs more often then i have been. but the thing that made the WAR what it was was also the fact it had the highest HP pool out of the tanks, and thats before it lost its tank stance bonus. i wanna say before ShB i was ilvl 386 and with out tank stance had about 99k+ HP with tank stance it was easily over 100k. i am currently lvl76ish and have about between 93 and 94k HP.

[Atreides]

The only thing that bothers me about WAR in it's current form is Holmgang, when our target dies durring the Holmgang duration the invuln falls off too, while it doesn't really mean anything in boss fights it can go south when using it on Trash.

[Lina_Slayer]

From my perspective 4.2 WAR was the disappointment, the job never recovered for being dumbed down that much.

[Inuk9]

From my perspective 4.2 WAR was the disappointment, the job never recovered for being dumbed down that much.

Good thing Pro warriors players like Xeno disagrees with you

[Lina_Slayer]

Good thing Pro warriors players like Xeno disagrees with you

Sure he does he was the one who pushed for this change, and he was actually right, since our DPS was so focused on few GCDs there would be huge performance variances from an encounter to other thanks to bad or good RNG, however while performance wise the new WAR was better and more consistent, fun is subjective and IMO it became way less fun and there were ways to both kill the RNG aspect while keeping WAR's nuanced rotation.

[NyneSwordz]

From my perspective 4.2 WAR was the disappointment, the job never recovered for being dumbed down that much.

Eh. More like streamlined.

[Schrute]

What attracted people to war was the big bursts dps. It’s dps is still burst, but not big as it needs to be. Holmgang was a big attraction do to its low cd time, but that increases by a minute. It also looks like content is written around this new cd time, like fat light, so not the worst thing to happen.

Again, I think war needs potency increases to fell cleave and inner chaos.

[SgtPepperUK]

What attracted people to war was the big bursts dps. It’s dps is still burst, but not big as it needs to be. Holmgang was a big attraction do to its low cd time, but that increases by a minute. It also looks like content is written around this new cd time, like fat light, so not the worst thing to happen.

Again, I think war needs potency increases to fell cleave and inner chaos.

For burst DPS I think WAR might be better now.

SB: Gauge 100, Inner Release = 7 Fell Cleaves (520 potency) then Infuriate for 1 more Fell Cleave for a total of 8.
Shb: Gauge 100, Inner Release = 7 Fell Cleaves (590 potency) then Infuriate x 2 Inner Chaos (960 Potency).

In tanking scenarios the gains are even better, as in Defiance we would have had Inner Beast, which has a potency of 350.

The sticking point is Nascent Flash, that it is clunky to use is generally agreed. Numbers wise, for HP returned, I've been crunching some numbers, provisionally it looks like it is actually much better on pack pulls, that we can get more HP back with 3 Decimates in 6s of Nascent Flash than 8 Steel Cyclones previously.

The opposite seems to be true when looking at the old Inner Beast vs using Fell Cleave under Nascent Flash.

To complicate things, like for like, so 3 x Inner Beast in SB vs 3 x Fell Cleave with Nascent Flash in ShB, Nascent Flash gives better HP.

So in burst, it might be weaker solo but over a long fight might even out or be better.

[Izsha]

What attracted people to war was the big bursts dps. It’s dps is still burst, but not big as it needs to be. Holmgang was a big attraction do to its low cd time, but that increases by a minute. It also looks like content is written around this new cd time, like fat light, so not the worst thing to happen.

Again, I think war needs potency increases to fell cleave and inner chaos.

Much like drk, "what attracted people to war" depends on when you started playing war. 2.0 war is a very different version than whay we have now.

SE seems to think people just want to burst junk stupid hard and thats all warrior is now. War has moved from preparing resources for a 44% boost for 20/60 sec with a recovery period to a 100% boost for 10/90 sec spamming the most powerful actions move. Piling more and more potency into a shorter and shorter time frame is certainly not what i want. We have already practically transformed warrior into a 1 hit wonder every 90 sec. We really dont need to go even further down this path by buffing FC to focus even MORE on this tiny burst window.

6 of our 'actions' are just 2 reskinned 3x. We have the lowest number of actions and the lowest actions per minute while playing. There are far better ways to grow war than shoving more damage into memeCleave.

[NyneSwordz]

Much like drk, "what attracted people to war" depends on when you started playing war. 2.0 war is a very different version than whay we have now.

SE seems to think people just want to burst junk stupid hard and thats all warrior is now. War has moved from preparing resources for a 44% boost for 20/60 sec with a recovery period to a 100% boost for 10/90 sec spamming the most powerful actions move. Piling more and more potency into a shorter and shorter time frame is certainly not what i want. We have already practically transformed warrior into a 1 hit wonder every 90 sec. We really dont need to go even further down this path by buffing FC to focus even MORE on this tiny burst window.

6 of our 'actions' are just 2 reskinned 3x. We have the lowest number of actions and the lowest actions per minute while playing. There are far better ways to grow war than shoving more damage into memeCleave.

I love Fell Cleave though - or what it used to be. It was the most powerful attack in the game and when it landed, it hurt. Now, it hits like a wet noodle because of Inner Release. I'm really torn, because I like Inner Release too because it fits with the theme of war losing control and becoming more powerful.

I think SE wanted to give us some of that original Fell Cleave feeling back through Inner Chaos, and tbh, Inner Chaos feels about as strong as Fell Cleave did when it was first introduced. So they sorta succeeded there.

I love big bursts, but I totally agree that we sorta need something else as well to keep things interesting. We used to have brutal swing, dot, and execute (it's been so long I've forgotten the names of these actions), but now all we have is fell cleave and decimate and their variants. Upheaval has a great animation, but it's not very interesting to use as it's jsut a button you hit every 30 seconds. Onslaught costs rage so you're only gonna ever tack it onto the back of a FC during IR.

Nascent Flash, as clunky as it is to use, is the most fun action we've received in a long time. It scratches that itch that losing bloodbath left. If they could kinda make it easier to use somehow, make Upheaval more interesting to use (maybe have it apply a dot?), remove gauge cost from Onslaught so it can be used as a dps gain, or whatever, it could go a long way to making the job a little bit more interesting to use.

Lastly, I really loved that they made Raw Intuition basically what IB used to be - a short duration damage reduction that required a bit of timing - which can be really interesting to use. But they tied it to Nascent Flash - which I totally udnerstand why they did that. It's just Nascent Flash is so much fun to use, that I end up using it whenever it's up and never really using Raw Intuition - even when I should.

If they could somehow separate the two actions and still keep it balanced that would be great. I'd like to use both = p