nin and dnc buffs when?

[Rivxkobe]

Right now neither need buffs.

[oph]

I'll chime in for NIN and have to agree that it feels on the weak side, specially for the amount of complexity to play it with it's current iteration and it doesn't feel good at all knowing some jobs can pull more dps with half the APM, I know it's not a valid nor fair metric to determine how much damage should a job inflict, but in my opinion it should be at least above Bard and RDM and on par or slightly below SMN.

An easy fix would be to reinstate Dripping Blades trait and maybe nerf it to 15% instead of 20%, or even 10% and maybe up some potencies. Just an idea.

[Arkenne]

the massive nerf we got accross the board with the loss of dripping blades. which was 20%.

The damaging formula changed from SB to ShB for the better (which is more notorious on dungeons like the 24-man Crystal Tower) but, if we look a potencies alone, then there is actually a 30% loss, because Slashing Debuff was something to take into account everywhere too.

Given this there are almost no buffs, most skills had a nerf when it comes to potency values for NIN.


I understand that TA is quite the raid contribution... but I feel like the NIN gameplay got real complex now and its quite a boon that for the amount of effort it takes to perform decently, let alone excel at it, is rewarded with way too small a pDPS.

Its like we have to use 10 skills in order to contribute as much as someone else pushing 3.

This saddens me as I actually like the current NIN gameplay, but feels like Im shocking myself while being a liability for the group that only shine for 10 seconds a minute and then Im just a spendable.

Worse is that, this will mean that either NIN will get a gameplay change for simplicity, or nerf its rDPS for the sake of a more worth-for-the-effort pDPS.

[Starflake]

Right now neither need buffs.

Please humour me, what kind of data do you have in your possession that suggest this? Because all the data so far shows that Ninja at least is far behind the other melee DPS with TA factored in.

[Rivxkobe]

Please humour me, what kind of data do you have in your possession that suggest this? Because all the data so far shows that Ninja at least is far behind the other melee DPS with TA factored in.

I don't have any data.

I'm just saying it doesn't need buffs for a couple reasons:

1. All we have is Ex Primals and Dummy tests. And it can clear Ex Primals like every other job.
2. Personal bias. Nin can stand a couple of months where it isn't a meta pick.

[Kabooa]

I don't have any data.

I'm just saying it doesn't need buffs for a couple reasons:

1. All we have is Ex Primals and Dummy tests. And it can clear Ex Primals like every other job.
2. Personal bias. Nin can stand a couple of months where it isn't a meta pick.

Feel like we can pull the ole

"If your static makes you change to jobs you don't want to play, you should find a new static" card that got dealt around.

[BigBossCL]

I don't have any data.

I'm just saying it doesn't need buffs for a couple reasons:

1. All we have is Ex Primals and Dummy tests. And it can clear Ex Primals like every other job.
2. Personal bias. Nin can stand a couple of months where it isn't a meta pick.

"I disagree with your evidence, but cannot disprove it and will discount it out of hand."

[Starflake]

I don't have any data.

I'm just saying it doesn't need buffs for a couple reasons:

1. All we have is Ex Primals and Dummy tests. And it can clear Ex Primals like every other job.
2. Personal bias. Nin can stand a couple of months where it isn't a meta pick.

Every job has been able to clear content since forever, by that logic, we simply don't need to have balance changes anymore since every job can clear anyway. I can't believe people still use this insanely silly argument. We have enough data to see that Ninja is pretty far behind all other melee in an equal skill level. As a matter of fact, on an equal skill level around 75th percentiles and lower it's even weaker due to people not properly utilising TA. If you don't want to deal in numbers and facts, then don't make blanket statements. Ninja is one of those jobs that has always been massively overrated. If your party is bad, Ninja usually was pretty bad since the value of Trick Attack just wasn't great. Now the data shows that we are 1.5-2K DPS behind other melee. Trick Attack does not make up for that at all. On average, in good teams, Trick Value will be around 1.2k. In most parties I have been in, with timely Trick Attacks, it's been like 800. So there is a huge gap. You see, Ninja is only as strong as the party itself and with strong parties, it does not come close to the rest. This does not only make Ninja an undesirable class in high end groups, but it becomes even more useless in groups that don't work around that synergy. Which is like 90% of the statics (estimate). So no, Ninja is not fine and just because it was "meta" for a long time, doesn't mean we get to throw it in the dumpster.
Dragoon and Bard have pretty much the same rDPS as Ninja in SB, Dragoon even more, and with double physical ranged, it's not even a competition. But everyone always moans about Ninja. People don't understand how Ninja works, they think Trick Attack is this magical buff that gives you insane party DPS. It only does if your party is very good. It was always a fairly average job in fairly average parties, which is almost all of them.

[Laur1x]

Every job has been able to clear content since forever, by that logic, we simply don't need to have balance changes anymore since every job can clear anyway. I can't believe people still use this insanely silly argument. We have enough data to see that Ninja is pretty far behind all other melee in an equal skill level. As a matter of fact, on an equal skill level around 75th percentiles and lower it's even weaker due to people not properly utilising TA. If you don't want to deal in numbers and facts, then don't make blanket statements. Ninja is one of those jobs that has always been massively overrated. If your party is bad, Ninja usually was pretty bad since the value of Trick Attack just wasn't great. Now the data shows that we are 1.5-2K DPS behind other melee. Trick Attack does not make up for that at all. On average, in good teams, Trick Value will be around 1.2k. In most parties I have been in, with timely Trick Attacks, it's been like 800. So there is a huge gap. You see, Ninja is only as strong as the party itself and with strong parties, it does not come close to the rest. This does not only make Ninja an undesirable class in high end groups, but it becomes even more useless in groups that don't work around that synergy. Which is like 90% of the statics (estimate). So no, Ninja is not fine and just because it was "meta" for a long time, doesn't mean we get to throw it in the dumpster.
Dragoon and Bard have pretty much the same rDPS as Ninja in SB, Dragoon even more, and with double physical ranged, it's not even a competition. But everyone always moans about Ninja. People don't understand how Ninja works, they think Trick Attack is this magical buff that gives you insane party DPS. It only does if your party is very good. It was always a fairly average job in fairly average parties, which is almost all of them.

Wall of text, but really informative and 100% truth spoken here. People overvalue TA, 90% of statics don't even utilize it to it's fullest potential. In PUGs it's value is lost to almost nothing.

Right now neither need buffs.

I can't speak for DNC, but NIN has already been math'd out. The rDPS it brings combined with low pDPS makes taking classes with higher pDPS more optimal. I don't want crazy big buffs, I just want small buffs and for them to make our new ST mudra work off Fuma instead of Hyoton. We need adjustments is all. I'm completely on board for a TA nerf and/or removal and pushing us into a more selfish pDPS role anyways. This is the only game in existence that the "assassin" class is support-y.

[JohnSeal]

On a Dancer I would certainly want Saber Dance be an ogcd ability (: surely some buff to FD1 and FD3 in term of potency because they seems way to weak