NIN is undertuned.

[Warlyx]

random ideas:

remove ninki cost of bushin , mesui is a good idea but ugh , change it to next raiton adds +40 ninki ? or dunno , is good on opener tho

bring back Dripping blades or boost potency a little

[Anselmet]

All I know is that personal dps between drg and nin is too big. Which probably means drg will be taken for litany and dragon sight even though trick attack is amazing. Ninja is undertuned and drg is overtuned imo which worsen the problem. Some buffs and nerfs need to be handed out.

[ForteNightshade]

All I know is that personal dps between drg and nin is too big. Which probably means drg will be taken for litany and dragon sight even though trick attack is amazing. Ninja is undertuned and drg is overtuned imo which worsen the problem. Some buffs and nerfs need to be handed out.

Dragoon no longer compares with Ninja. They've essentially become Monks now. Litany is on a three minute CD, thus you aren't seeing it much. Even in Stormblood, Trick absolutely destroyed Litany in terms of rDPS. Brotherhood, on the other hand, is much closer given it's on a 90s CD and only 5%. So while I agree Ninja needs some love right now. I think Dragoon is actually fine.

[Starflake]

More often than not, Dragoon with piercing, Litany and tether brought more overall rDPS than Ninjas. Litany and tether is still no joke as in a decent group you're looking at around 800rDPS from them combined while Ninja's Trick Attack is estimated around 1.5k in good groups. That's not average groups, we're talking about good groups. Ninja needs quite some love indeed. It is way too weak and Dragoon is too strong as is has about the same DPS as Samurai and Monk but with more rDPS contribution.
Ninja on the other hand, according to the data is almost 2000 DPS behind in the 99th percentile bracket behind Dragoon. It is 3000 DPS behind Black Mage.

In other words, a selfish class like BLM would bring around 1.5k more DPS to a raid over a Ninja, and that is only under the condition that the rest of the party is good. I've had extreme practice runs on my Ninja where Trick contributed to only 750 DPS! Remember, in order for Ninja to be great, everyone has to be great. I wonder what the development team was actually thinking and how they tested these things. Considering most of the classes seem to have very high personal DPS on top of having some utility, it seems that Ninja is severly undertuned while also it being a difficult job to play. It's absolutely crazy to me that a class that you have to play to such perfection to get anywhere (Trick timings and ninki management), that it falls so far behind. There is no doubt in my mind they will buff Ninja though. I am just asking questions how they screwed it up like this in the first place. It's glaringly behind.

[Vendalwind]

NIN either needs higher personal dps, or some more gimmicks/utility. as it stands dancers are barely below us while providing far more utility, AND the game play is easier. A NIN can perform well but under very arduous circumstances. One of the biggest problems with NIN stems from the fact that most of his oGCDs hurt his other abilities GCD or OCD. A TCJ during bunshin ruins it. Even kassatsu/raitons hurt bunshin and disallow building skill speed at all. Meisui is a gimp yourself now to boost yourself maybe button. works great in the current opener but outside of that its use feels hurtful and demands extreme micro management for a exceptionally minimal potency gain. Bunshin at the very least should interact with ninjutsu thus making it a non restrictive move. As it is it is restricted by both ninki management and what else we have available.

There are many ways NIN could be improved. Some more complicated than others. I love how complex the class is, and how high it's skill ceiling is. But as it stands it needs something somewhere to make it truly viable and enjoyable to play in line with other classes. whether that takes the form of potency buffs to just gcds, or buffs to bunshin, or a rework of some of the systems interplay with eachother and cooldowns I dont care. course hte best thing would be to find a way for us to avoid clipping somehow, but that is the most complex of the possibilities im sure.

Anyways, in short BRD, and DNC far out class us right now. DNC has low dps, but incredible utility, and general playability which means a mediocre dancer can actually outperform a mediocre NIN even in personal dps. this is a problem.

[Pinkie_Pie]

The problem I have is that dragoon has battle litany and dragon sight which gives far more then what a ninja can do. Ninja only has 1 thing and it's only Increases one target's damage taken by 10% on a 60s recast time. Just that doesn't mean the ninja should be at the rock bottom of *everyone* hell, even bards do more than a ninja. I have a feel there's gonna be huge combat balancing before savage like last time.

[Gallagos]

NIN either needs higher personal dps, or some more gimmicks/utility. as it stands dancers are barely below us while providing far more utility, AND the game play is easier. A NIN can perform well but under very arduous circumstances. One of the biggest problems with NIN stems from the fact that most of his oGCDs hurt his other abilities GCD or OCD. A TCJ during bunshin ruins it. Even kassatsu/raitons hurt bunshin and disallow building skill speed at all. Meisui is a gimp yourself now to boost yourself maybe button. works great in the current opener but outside of that its use feels hurtful and demands extreme micro management for a exceptionally minimal potency gain. Bunshin at the very least should interact with ninjutsu thus making it a non restrictive move. As it is it is restricted by both ninki management and what else we have available.

There are many ways NIN could be improved. Some more complicated than others. I love how complex the class is, and how high it's skill ceiling is. But as it stands it needs something somewhere to make it truly viable and enjoyable to play in line with other classes. whether that takes the form of potency buffs to just gcds, or buffs to bunshin, or a rework of some of the systems interplay with eachother and cooldowns I dont care. course hte best thing would be to find a way for us to avoid clipping somehow, but that is the most complex of the possibilities im sure.

Anyways, in short BRD, and DNC far out class us right now. DNC has low dps, but incredible utility, and general playability which means a mediocre dancer can actually outperform a mediocre NIN even in personal dps. this is a problem.

Agree with everything here. So many of the added skills in shadowbringers hurt our openers, or gimp themselves indirectly. Triple ogcd casting during bushin feels terrible.

Meisui outside of the opener is meh.

Right now, it feels terrible to play ninja. The opener doesn't flow as well as in Stormblood, and we're taking more actions than other classes for less dps, with less raid utility. I definitely feel that dragoon or monk easily outshine ninja in this current moment.

[Sigmakan]

Suggestion, remove first mudra of all ninjutsus.

This means the current 3 step mudras would become 2 step. Current 2 steps become 1 step. And fuma would cease to exist.

Why is this needed? Fuma no longer has a use, as raiton is the clear choice for damage. However, this makes the players ping critical for overall dps, as high pings will start to significantly clip GCDs. By lower the number of mudras needed to cast this can be almost completely alleviated.

The big downside is that Ninja would lose a bit of what makes it fun to play. I've always enjoyed the mudra casting element of the job; however, the GCD clipping is a significant issue that makes it hard to balance the job. SE can't hand out significant potency increase to accommodate for the clipping because those who have low ping will now be overpowered.

SE either needs to fix the clipping, or reduce the number of mudras required to cast ninjutsu.

[Laur1x]

Suggestion, remove first mudra of all ninjutsus.

This means the current 3 step mudras would become 2 step. Current 2 steps become 1 step. And fuma would cease to exist.

Why is this needed? Fuma no longer has a use, as raiton is the clear choice for damage. However, this makes the players ping critical for overall dps, as high pings will start to significantly clip GCDs. By lower the number of mudras needed to cast this can be almost completely alleviated.

The big downside is that Ninja would lose a bit of what makes it fun to play. I've always enjoyed the mudra casting element of the job; however, the GCD clipping is a significant issue that makes it hard to balance the job. SE can't hand out significant potency increase to accommodate for the clipping because those who have low ping will now be overpowered.

SE either needs to fix the clipping, or reduce the number of mudras required to cast ninjutsu.

They could just make the new ice shurikens work off fuma when kassatsu'd rather than hyoton. That would work too.

[Kabooa]

Give Ninjas Six Sided Star.