NIN is undertuned.

[Laur1x]

The playstyle, flow, and complexity of NIN is great. I'll start with that. I'm also nowhere near expecting to be a "Top DPS" job, because we still bring insane utility via Trick Attack.

With that said, our personal dps is abysmally low. We were compensated (much like everyone else) due to slashing debuff being removed, but in combination with Dripping Blades being removed, we actually do less damage on some of our skills post-ShB, Aeolian Edge for example.

Bunshin is also an extreme let down. Long cool-down, flat damage off weapon skills, doesn't scale with combos, nothing. There is no difference between popping Bunshin and spamming throwing daggers and doing an AE combo.

I don't mind being on the "lower-end" of DPS at all, but I definitely noticed overall something didn't feel right the more I leveled.

Going off of the Titania SSS Dummy Values, I don't quite understand the devs decision in things like DRG/MNK being ahead of SAM, and NIN being 10-15% behind the other melee at all. Proof: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...mmy_hp_values/

[DAILO]

Almost feels like another job with higher personal dps would be better to bring than a Ninja

[Laur1x]

Almost feels like another job with higher personal dps would be better to bring than a Ninja

That's my point. Trick Attack alone isn't going to save us anymore if we're THAT behind other DPS jobs. We don't need to be top-3 DPS, but we can't be this abysmally low either.

We're expected to clip again now that Raiton > Fuma, which isn't helping our cause. We need some potency buffs and Bunshin needs a rework or we may not be sought out after anymore.

[xxvaynxx]

Either the Sam calculation is wrong or it's because samurai takes awhile to ramp up.
Our opener is a bit more bursty though than SB.

[ForteNightshade]

To be fair, SSS is going to give extremely lopsided results. For example, those evaluations on Ninja aren't accounting for Trick Attack on seven other people. Given the sheer outgoing damage we're pulling off now, I'd estimate Trick providing at least 1,400-1,500 rDPS all on its own if not even higher. Ninja still may need a buff but we'll have to see how dire the situation is once more tests are done in an actual raid setting.

Samurai, on the other hand, is the far bigger issue. It offers no utility, thus its damage won't scale upwards any more than another DPS. This means once you account for Litany and Brother, Samurai is getting utterly obliterated. I don't understand why they're so afraid to give Samurai the high damage a supposed greedy DPS warrants. Do they think it'll upset the other DPS?

[xxvaynxx]

To be fair, SSS is going to give extremely lopsided results. For example, those evaluations on Ninja aren't accounting for Trick Attack on seven other people. Given the sheer outgoing damage we're pulling off now, I'd estimate Trick providing at least 1,400-1,500 rDPS all on its own if not even higher. Ninja still may need a buff but we'll have to see how dire the situation is once more tests are done in an actual raid setting.

Samurai, on the other hand, is the far bigger issue. It offers no utility, thus its damage won't scale upwards any more than another DPS. This means once you account for Litany and Brother, Samurai is getting utterly obliterated. I don't understand why they're so afraid to give Samurai the high damage a supposed greedy DPS warrants. Do they think it'll upset the other DPS?

At the moment, from face value, our DPS is fine. Double midare and the midare buff, St guren and the enchanted shifu and jinpu.

Have to wait and see how we do in Savage though.

[SwarleyMcSwarls]

Ninja was the weakest personal dps job in content in SB, and they are one of the few jobs that didn't get their damage utility nerfed. I'd say it being only ahead of dancer for expected personal dps is very fair.

[Kaozurei]

This is a concern I've had for a while. My fear is that NIN's personal DPS might be so low that even the rDPS bonus from TA will not be enough to put them on par with the other DPS choices. We shouldn't be top DPS by any means but our contribution should be at least on par with other DPS to make NIN worth taking. That said, I don't really have any hope of seeing any actual number buffs until after the first savage tier, so probably won't see anything for at least a month and a half from now.

Ninja was the weakest personal dps job in content in SB, and they are one of the few jobs that didn't get their damage utility nerfed. I'd say it being only ahead of dancer for expected personal dps is very fair.

While I agree that NIN should by no means boast high personal DPS due to Trick Attack, the concern OP and a number of us have is that it might end up being more beneficial to take another melee DPS with higher personal DPS over Ninja. Put it this way, if NIN does 1,000 DPS and TA is an additional 1,000 rDPS, all you'd need is a DPS that can do 2,000 DPS to break even. In Stormblood, even though Ninja had the lowest personal DPS, the difference wasn't too big compared to other DPS and TA made up for this difference, but if TA's bonus and NIN's personal DPS can be matched or surpassed by another job's sheer personal DPS then there'd be little reason to take NIN to a raid.

[Laur1x]

While I agree that NIN should by no means boast high personal DPS due to Trick Attack, the concern OP and a number of us have is that it might end up being more beneficial to take another melee DPS with higher personal DPS over Ninja. Put it this way, if NIN does 1,000 DPS and TA is an additional 1,000 rDPS, all you'd need is a DPS that can do 2,000 DPS to break even. In Stormblood, even though Ninja had the lowest personal DPS, the difference wasn't too big compared to other DPS and TA made up for this difference, but if TA's bonus and NIN's personal DPS can be matched or surpassed by another job's sheer personal DPS then there'd be little reason to take NIN to a raid.

This exactly is my primary concern. Thanks for elaborating for me.

[Zikh]

I definitely love how ninja plays, the more buttons the merrier. Helps the old senile me keep my hand to eye coordination high, even if my mind is otherwise slipping. (I'm not really that old, just a joke.)

I've been away for a long time, and for some reason decided to play Ninja. I do love the way the class plays, but there are a few things that boggle my mind:

Lots of buttons, low dmg. Naturally this will be fixed by removing half of the Ninja's skills in the near future. You know it will happen.

Why ninjutsu fails if you use your basic attacks combos? That basically destroys ninjutsu. Add to that the very low potency of ninjutsu in general, when you consider it can fail and interrupts your basic attacks. To hyberbolize a bit: I have Blasting Zone macroed into my basic attack combo on my Gunbreaker, that macro alone does more damage than the entirety of ninjutsu on my Ninja, with zero effort. 1760 potency of damage per minute, that's what Blasting Zone does when used on every CD. Is this a fair comparison? Dunno, but it sure does give one something to think about.

Shukuchi is super clunky to use. Dancer's En Avant is simply said the super Shukuchi, better in every way possible. The reason why Shukuchi is bad is because you have a delay once you cast it, you have to target it. If there was a macro to make it instantly Shukuchi you onto your mouse pointer location or towards it, it would be awesome. It isn't at the moment. Macroing it with <t>, helps, but makes it even clunkier to use.

Assassinate is a pointless skill. Completely and utterly pointless. And what's funnier, it's probably the only melee attack in the entire game that roots you into place, so if you use it at a wrong time, you're dead, for a lousy ~300 potency attack. Remove it and increase DwaD potency per hit by 100.

I'm not a pro, but I don't understand Meisui. Why does it exist? Why does it have a cd, if it has to exist?

Why does every Ninki spender cost 80?

Ten Chi Jin is... poop. Why does it root you? For AoE it's good, dishing out some nice potency, but the fact that there is no valid 3 Mudra single target finisher for Ten Chi Jin makes it poop. And when you use it for aoe, the tank moves the enemies while you're there sitting, casting your Mudra combos and your double potency Doton is completely wasted. Sure, you can skip and go straight to Doton, but that kinda defeats the entire point of Ten Chi Jin.

Why is Bunshin so bad?

Clunky seems to be my favourite word when it comes to criticising the Ninja. Though that seems to be part of the FFXIV charm, I guess. Though I'd recommend for Naoki Yoshida to contact the people who programmed the engine for Wildstar or WoW, I'm sure some of them are unemployed at the moment. The responsiviness of controls in those is simply amazing so having them to take a look at how FFXIV runs things under the hood wouldn't hurt.