Is Tornado Kick rotation still viable? Or do I need to find a new monk style?

[ValStormbreaker]

Looping rotation needs to be in GL4 along with 1200 SkS in order for you to have the optimal looping rotation. However opener is mostly done in FoF.

Optimal Looping rotation in GL4 w/ ~1200 SkS you can get two True Strikes for every Twin Snakes.

I've seen that optimal rotation and tried it out. It's... not fun to use. Just relies on spending PB to go back and forth between Dragon Kick and Bootshine which feels hella clumsy. Relying on server ticks to get that GL stack quickly off of Anatman is a testament to how Anatman should just be scrapped in favour of having a proper oGCD weaponskill that gives GL, and the fact that 4 GL stacks isn't faster but is required to match the same speed tells me we need two oGCDs to compensate for slowdown windows.

I know theory crafters would probably have a conniption at the thought of me doing this, but since proper melds only account for 1-2% of actual DPS performance anywa I chose to yolo it and meld SkS onto anything and everything that'll take it, and everything else that won't take SkS would get crit, det or DH. I have tried playing this with SkS of 2300+, and it STILL feels too slow for me, but of course MNK gets shafted on the weapon stats with SkS whereas SAM does not, so on the Ronkan gear I want to get my skill speed as high as the game will allow me, and THEN see what's possible. Hopefully there's a more fun way to play it viably where the boost in skill speed compensates appropriately for the lack of damage output, but if I'm to be a betting woman, I'd say that if MNK doesn't get any more oGCDs in the coming patches, then the only way it will feel smooth to play again rotation-wise is if it has an SkS over 3k. I'm not going to get that with the current endgame gear, sadly, but I really feel that it needs more weaving options since the GCD in the game is really slow otherwise.

[GuntherGrass]

Im still not to lvl 76 to test. I know you gain GL4 through wind, but then does switching back to FoF send GL back to 3? If so, then you'd lose the 10% buff from FoF and I'm starting to think Tornado Kick rotation could be viable by ignoring 4th stack. Unless I'm wrong, maintaining GL means you lose out on the guaranteed Crit from Bootshine because you'll never be in Opo-Opo for it. Rebuilding stacks means you get two Leaden Fist and one of those Bootshines is a guaranteed Crit albeit w/ the 2 and not 4 greased lightning stacks.

With the Tornado Kick rotation I could care less about SkillSpeed because I would kill my lightning stacks right before throwing Demolish anyway. But obviously that was when ShoulderTackle granted a stack so rebuilding GL didn't seem like a chore. Plus there were OGCD's at the end of the tunnel.

I don't know. I'm working on the new (I guess original) style. Putting all my DH into SkS (now at 2000) has certainly helped. But there's still times where I have to revert to Tornado Kick anyway because for whatever reason I can't get my refresh in time and there's no worse feeling than losing stacks with nothing to show for it.

Then I'll get a 35k Tornado Kick and wonder what I'm doing leaving it out of my rotation. Then other times it will dud... So... I'm still on the fence.

[stormiekni]

You are absolutely correct. "optimal" rotation AND opener feel awful at the moment. Nothing feels like flows together. Its a real slap in the face they add not one but two charged skills to MCH, but take away all our single oGCD skills...

We are supposed to be the fast paced skill weaving class aren't we?

For me personally it is hard to prioritize SkS over Crit due to us losing our Crit manipulation as well...MNK atm feels like a damned if you do damned if you do not kind of situation.

[GuntherGrass]

This clearly drifted and died, but anyway, here's my argument for Tornado Kick rotation. All GL4 really gives is a 5% additional increase in weaponskill speed, which I guess is important if you're trying to suss out damage to the third decimal place for savage end-game content. Since I don't care about that, I'm sticking with Tornado Kick rotation since it's more fun and no stress. Also, I tried out both styles on Stone-Sea-Sky, simplified, without the use of PB, and they both finish at the same time for me.

-The damage buff of GL4 is equal to Fist of Fire GL3, so you can just ignore GL4.

-You can ignore SkS.

-Rebuilding stacks gives two Leaden Fists, and one of the Bootshines is a guaranteed Crit since you'll be in Opo-Opo after the 2nd GL.

-Elixer Field and Shoulder Tackle seem to come back online during the GL3 combo window and sync up pretty well with it.

-And rebuilding stacks isn't so bad, since at least it brings in some positional/weaponskill diversity rather than repeating the same bland combo.

Thanks for the help. If you're looking for the fun of old Monk, you can find it in Mechanist. ;p

[Noitems]

New opener: In Fist of Fire - Demolish - Anatman (stack once) - Dragon Kick - Twin Snakes - Riddle of Fire - Snap Punch - Brotherhood - Forbidden Chakra - Bootshine - Perfect Balance - Dragon Kick - Bootshine -Elixir Field - Shoulder Tackle Demolish - Shoulder Tackle - Twin Snakes -Dragon Kick - Bootshine - True Strike - Fist of Wind - Snap Punch - Dragon Kick.

Once you have 1200 SkS your looping combo changes to have two True Stikes before re upping Twin Snakes

Does it make any sense to use Six Sided Star in a given rotation or is it honestly just pointless?

[GuntherGrass]

I actually found a way to use Six Sided Star in the Tornado Kick rotation, but only whenever Anatman is up. At the end of your looping rotation you use Six Sided Star to renew your gauge instead of throwing a Demolish (or Snap Punch) to renew it. Then you quickly follow SSS with Tornado Kick and then Anatman. By the time your weaponskills come back online you'll have a stack from Anatman and you complete your rotation with the Demolish (or Snap Punch) and you're back at 2. SSS takes the guilt out of awkward Anatman wait times and vice versa.

But if you're talking about that standard rotation, I assume it's a situational thing and probably comes up pretty often in order to save GL during mechanics.

[BucklesTrespen]

I actually found a way to use Six Sided Star in the Tornado Kick rotation, but only whenever Anatman is up. At the end of your looping rotation you use Six Sided Star to renew your gauge instead of throwing a Demolish (or Snap Punch) to renew it. Then you quickly follow SSS with Tornado Kick and then Anatman. By the time your weaponskills come back online you'll have a stack from Anatman and you complete your rotation with the Demolish (or Snap Punch) and you're back at 2. SSS takes the guilt out of awkward Anatman wait times and vice versa.

But if you're talking about that standard rotation, I assume it's a situational thing and probably comes up pretty often in order to save GL during mechanics.

Sounds like a lot to manage / align - not to mention risking Anatman not being available for a boss transition - just to shoehorn TK into the rotation versus, say, BLM Xenoglossy which is straight up available every 30 seconds for next to no management.

[GuntherGrass]

I think Forbidden Chakra could be Monk's Xeneglossy, assuming it comes up twice every thirty seconds, which I'm not sure is the case. Can go through a whole Brotherhood and get just one... or none.

And ya, that SSS thing takes away what I assume is the intended use of Anatman. But again, none of this is kosher.

But as a side note I'm loving Monk again because of TK rotation, cause everything seems to be aligning and staying aligned without any effort, much more so than old Monk. I only go into GL4 for Brotherhood / Riddle of Fire, giving enough speed to end that rotation with the SSS - TK - Anatman, and then Anatman's back up for the end of the next Brotherhood rotation. And Brotherhood / Riddle of Fire comes up just as I'm filling GL4 in preparation for that to pop. And Elixir Field and Shoulder Tackle always coming online during those prime windows. So I don't know, it's such a bootleg rotation, but the alignment is so uncanny to where I don't feel like I'm forcing it. Plus it's fun.

[SpeckledBurd]

I actually found a way to use Six Sided Star in the Tornado Kick rotation, but only whenever Anatman is up. At the end of your looping rotation you use Six Sided Star to renew your gauge instead of throwing a Demolish (or Snap Punch) to renew it. Then you quickly follow SSS with Tornado Kick and then Anatman. By the time your weaponskills come back online you'll have a stack from Anatman and you complete your rotation with the Demolish (or Snap Punch) and you're back at 2. SSS takes the guilt out of awkward Anatman wait times and vice versa.

But if you're talking about that standard rotation, I assume it's a situational thing and probably comes up pretty often in order to save GL during mechanics.

Unfortunately, doing this is a huge damage loss. The amount of time it takes to rebuild up to 4 stacks of Greased Lightning with Anatman is about 9-12 seconds where you're launching no GCDs or Autoattacks. The gain you get from throwing out a Six Sided Star and a Tornado Kick still doesn't make up for the loss in uptime that it represents. The only time you can actually do this is when the boss is about to jump and won't be back for 12 seconds, or when they stand around monologuing at you before going into their ultimate after you've beaten up their adds(basically the ends of the add phases in Titania EX and innocence.)