Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[Lenarr]

This seems pretty decent, but my SMN is currently only level 70, so can't comment on any details.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_6i2Pbb0zs

[Zinnin]

I would like to see Ifrit actually be a single target pet. Currently his auto attacks are the only thing that deals more damage than Garuda, but if you are spacing Garuda's slipstreams correctly, overall Garuda does about the same (if not slightly higher) single target damage than Ifrit.

I like the idea of pet twisting based on combat state, but currently I see really no reason to pull out Ifrit, other than wanting to be lazy and not having to play around slipstream, and even then the overall difference in damage if you don't play around slipstream is like 1%.

[CecMiller]

I've seen a few already comment on this but i wanted to add my take on the subject of Ressurection.

If the spell "Ressurection" is causing our DPS to be dwarfed by so much, I think its time that we make it a healer only spell and be done with it. If both RDM and SMN are taxed with this burden, it makes them more unlikely to be picked post prog and the main job that would be considered for the caster slot would be BLM depending on how big the difference was as faster killer times usually equate to better dps for most jobs. Though this is dependant on the mindset of the community in general and mostly just conjecture as I have no idea how it will go in all honesty as SMN and RDM would still have party buffs.

For this reason, if such a "Ressurection Tax" exists as some believe it does, I would sooner make it a healer only spell than create such a large difference betweeen the jobs that have the spell and those that don't. There is precedent for this in the fact that threat management is now SOLEY a tank job. There is nothing we can do as a dps to manage our emnity or prevent us from dying first after the tank dies anymore. I suggest we go the extra step and outright remove the ressurection spell from DPS if this contributes to a forced large gap between the 2 raising casters and ther other jobs (not just BLM).

That said I know that this would be extremely polarizing. I know lots of casters, me included, like to have the ressurection spell to help raise people in a pinch. Removing it from casters would create more difficult raids and do away with any idea of a "Ressurection Tax". Further still, as threat management is now soley a Tanks job, so should be ressurecting the dead for healers (in my opinion). As I said, I would personaly only want this if a "Ressurection Tax" existed which results in the discrepency we now see today between jobs that do and dont. I would argue the same for healing abilities - if they don't result in a dps reduction for their utility, I'm all for them. The second they do, I'm against them.

[Incision93]

SMN wasn't as busy as RDM,

*Triggered

[Nezia]

When they announced the changes for summoner I was 100% into it, I even thought of maining a summoner for the expansion.

But after playing it for a bit... well... pet management is way better now but... I don't know how to describe it properly, it feels like the class design is all over the place.

Back in stormblood every single button you pressed made sense, each and every one of them worked to build up into the bahamut phase, but not anymore.

Aetherflow stacks feel like they are just there, they no longer really interact with anything nor serve a purpose other than dealing X damage. The same can be said of the pet actions, they are just a button that you press every Y seconds in order to deal X damage, not really having any interesting interaction or anything.

I feel like if they wanted to go for this Summoning identity then they should've get rid of either aetherflow stacks or dots(or maybe even both) and then focus more on the pets and summons. The way it's now it feels like summoner's playstyle was built by 3 different guys that didn't really talk or interact with each other and on the final day they each put their disconnected pieces together in order to build the class.

[Rakith]

I've never lagged behind any other DPS as much as i do now. MCH and RDM do as much or even better than i do dps wise...
I'm so disappointed. SMN feels messy. I cant see why a PF or roster would recruit a SMN now. I feel so sad. Loved the idea of phoenix, love the pet management but i feel useless...
And i dont think practice will make things get better...
I couldnt even tell what would fix that, it just a subjective feeling. Aetherstacks used to be thefounding of our rotation and burst phase, now they re just here to trigger painflare and fester...
I really think they should revamp the job a bit.

[Incision93]

I've never lagged behind any other DPS as much as i do now

I did a run with my static on innocence yesterday. I managed a 99 (with ninja killing me with an aoe on purpose at 2%), with dancer, 9 akhmorns in 8 tricks (thanks laggy bahamut), 8 revealations and 50% phoenix in tricks, and the drg tethering me 24/7, and rushing dwt+bahamut+using all ruin4 at the end. I did 10 dps less than unbuffed drg.

The problem is that, compared to sb, loosing so much utility and rdps on most jobs (smn lost basically everything), the gap now between jobs definitely made them a full "comp to buff blm". I don't see any reason to consider viable some classes.

Many say that they have positionals, many say mch is selfish and need to be so high while beeing free to move. The payoff for standing still for ruin3, longest rotation, high adaptation requirements, now selfish af, still fcked on deaths if you just pressed your trance is not there at all. From third to bottom with nothing to compensate. Imho, aside from ffxiv context and my loved smn, in every game an harder class should do more than the easier one, obviously role dependant

The problem now is that if BLM does 100, we do 75/80 at best. There is nothing that SMN gets to fill that gap. I used to say "if you are not godlike, using blm in ultimate/savage is just cause you want challenge" but you COULD still do godlike and get rewarded for it.
Now is "if you are godlike, using smn is just cause you want challenge in every content, and still you will suck. Enjoy deaths too".

[Rakith]

Now is "if you are godlike, using smn is just cause you want challenge in every content, and still you will suck. Enjoy deaths too".

You're so right. I hope SE will see our despair and will MAKE OUR JOB GREAT AGAIN.

[Taranok]

There's another option available. You can also just tie aetherflow directly to trance, and make trance the 60s cooldown, possibly allowing spillover along the lines of a BLM's Foul charges. Having cooldowns get disrupted by boss mechanics is fine, as is strategically saving them. But this way, you can only get Aetherflow when you can reasonably spend it in a block of guaranteed instant cast GCDs, which will free up ruin 4s for movement expenditure instead of for nothing but oGCD usage most of the time.

I'd also turn DWT into spawning DB directly instead of summoning DB as a separate action, and then just buff the damage of everything else to compensate for the lowered use of aetherflows.

For low level, they can keep energy drain combined with energy siphon (one button), but once you hit 58, it upgrades drain/siphon directly into trance instead. I don't even care if they add damage to the trances since it's being combined with ED under such a scenario and force it to only be castable when a boss is active, hell, they could save Deathflare this way by making DWT -open- with deathflare and summon DB during it as well. The point is you keep the 2 mechanics tied together and it eliminates a major source of the clunky business between burst windows. The opener will still be a mess, but even removing a single oGCD does wonders for smoothing it out.

There was zero reason to change trances from being aetherflow-charged to hard cooldowns. The progression of trance from HW to the mid-SB changes was logical, following the trend of making classes less punishing, and the final result was well designed. I will never understand the decision to change this when it was lumped in with MCH and BRD in that live letter as classes that needed major changes. It makes no sense.

This was done for several reasons, actually. One, Aetherflow being usable out of combat created situations where players wanted to stack up the mechanic before pulling else it would really mess up the opener. Two, in HW, players used the mechanic in a way flat out not intended by the devs, which was pacing Aetherflow charges to be able to spend 2 of them during DWT for +10% damage. The devs got rid of this in SB, much to the chagrin of the playerbase. The devs desynced it entirely in ShB because in ARR and HW, Aetherflow was your primary mechanic. In SB and ShB, trancing is the primary mechanic, so keeping it tied to a mechanic players don't really use anymore primarily is a strange problem.

The issue is that the redesign is redundant with EA, easy to miss, desyncs easily and, once desynced, causes issues, in addition to just making the mid-trance rotation really awkward for no reason.

Trance being a primary mechanic? Sure. 1m rotation? Sure. Can't bank it? Sure. Okay, why is another major source of damage in the same boat, on a faster rotation, and massively clutters the rotation?

[Angry_Evil]

Rotation too boring after Bahamut is just insanity... literally usually DWT is ready after bahamut and then it goes to the usual stuff. Tho if r2 weaving spam was not intended rotation during bahamut then it was boring even during it LOL Literally mind blown, they should just fire SMN job designers and try to actually play it more... Tho NOT GONNA LIE in dungeons egis feel more involved than ever cause you need to change them for pulls\bosses. It feel nice but ultimately it's nothing special.