Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[SchrodingersWaffle]

I've been playing this job since ARR and no it wasn't always like this. ARR smn wasn't, HW smn wasn't, SB smn started a bit by repeating dreadwyrm rotation twice then summoning bahamut. However the SB smn seemed like a rough and clunky sketch of what it's become now. ShB according to me made a clearer design for smn job.
All i can say it that for now i find this new design more fun to play and a lot less clunky than its SB iteration.
I don't think one really ever "choose" to use dreadwyrm trance or summon bahamut. Maybe there was an illusion of choice and flexibility but once bahamut was ready, one would summon it. Using dreadwyrm instead of bahamut would be a waste a dreadwyrm and postpone the ability to summon bahamut again. The system how it's designed now remove this possibility to "waste" anything. It's just a matter of getting used to the whole thing and seeing it differently.
Also still the beginning of the new expansion so no one can say they understand all of its content and gotten used to/mastered all of them.
Not liking the new smn because they were experienced with SB one? Maybe, because most of the time the more experienced you are with a job, the less easy it is to accept/understand changes and adapt. The brain being wired into the previous iteration makes it so, and it often takes more than a week to adapt to new things. Especially if it's one's main job and they've been doing the same thing for all these years. However it's inaccurate and certainly not a fact to link disliking and fully understanding the new design.

I feel like you're lacking a little bit of an understanding of the job. I mean yeah ARR SMN was pretty much DoT and dot maintenance and maximizing Raging Strikes damage uptime via manipulating DoT snapshots, but HW SMN was all about how many DWT you could line up one right after the other by abusing the timers on aethertrails and Aetherflow which added a significant layer of complexity which you could use to hold your burst phases for either party buffs or to avoid boss invulnerability phases. With SB Summoner you could absolutely hold both Bahamut and DWT for up to 40secs each depending on the CD on Aetherflow, you could even build towards your next DWT during Bahamut which lead to an even further level of complexity and choice there.

We've lost pretty much ALL of that. If you don't want to take a massive damage loss, you use Trance/Bahamut as soon as they're available, otherwise you're pushing back Bahamuts and Phoenixs later in the fight, most likely pushing them out of alignment with things like Trick Attack, AST Cards and DNC dances.

[Kyohei]

If you want to assume i'm not understanding the job because i like ShB summoner then whatever.
That said, i'm very much aware of how we used to play HW smn to maximise the trance and explained it to many people who asked how i was managing such dps with smn back then. But it wasn't a three layers rotation, it was one complete big rotation.
Yes we could do that with SB smn but again it doesn't make up for the fact it was a clunky job to play and not as well rounded and fun to play as how HW smn was. ShB complexity resides in the ability to make the most of dreadwyrm/demi bahamut/phoenix while at the same time making sure nothing stays unused, and being able to keep track of stacks of ruins/aetheflow up for Bahamut, and aetherflow ready for phoenix. The choices/complexity/optimisation now resides no more on how many trance/demis you can pull off per X second but on how you will make the most of them by choosing which of your other skills to coupled to them. That's why i'm saying it's now a clearer 3 layers rotation, because you don't choose anymore when to dreadwyrm/demi. You don't optimise anymore on the time to have them but during the time you have them.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

If you want to assume i'm not understanding the job because i like ShB summoner then whatever.
That said, i'm very much aware of how we used to play HW smn to maximise the trance and explained it to many people who asked how i was managing such dps with smn back then. But it wasn't a three layers rotation, it was one complete big rotation.
Yes we could do that with SB smn but again it doesn't make up for the fact it was a clunky job to play and not as well rounded and fun to play as how HW smn was. ShB complexity resides in the ability to make the most of dreadwyrm/demi bahamut/phoenix while at the same time making sure nothing stays unused, and being able to keep track of stacks of ruins/aetheflow up for Bahamut, and aetherflow ready for phoenix. The choices/complexity/optimisation now resides no more on how many trance/demis you can pull off but on how you will make the most of them by choosing which of your other skills to coupled to them.

I'm not assuming you're lacking in understanding because you like ShB SMN. I'm saying you're lacking in understanding because you're saying that when we used DWT and Demi-Bahamut wasn't really a choice or that it was an illusion of choice. Which is objectively and patently false. As is the idea that the way things are now removes the ability for us to "waste" a DWT, Bahamut or a Phoenix. Those absolutely can still be wasted, it's just not up to us whether or not it's wasted or not anymore because not using them on CD is a damage loss regardless of whether there's a target or not, or whether or not Trick Attack/AST Cards are up. There's very little optimization to be made in that gameplay, and if you can't see that then I can't really help you.

[Kyohei]

There is a fair amount of optimisation compared to the other jobs, and likewise if you can't see that i can't help you either. I'm glad i can appreciate smn again and have fun with it anyway.

[SchrodingersWaffle]

There is a fair amount of optimisation compared to the other jobs, and likewise if you can't see that i can't help you either. I'm glad i can appreciate smn again and have fun with it anyway.

Where? Where is the optimization? Because it certainly isn't in Aetherflow usage, that's pretty much blow on CD, since being a 30sec CD doesn't really line it up with anything of note and with the uses combined with the 5sec CD means that we can't line it up for an explosive burst with Trick Attack, which would be cool. It's not in Egi Assault as those do pretty much no damage and are very heavily prone to clipping and erroring in such a way that makes actually optimizing their use next to impossible. It's not in Trance/Bahamut usage for reasons that pretty much everyone else gone over. Ruin II versus Ruin III usage? Maybe? Because that's pretty much it. Now if you would deign to point out where the optimization points that you're seeing are, I'd be glad to give them a test.