Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[HeulGDarian]

Personally I like how SMN plays at max lvl (low lvl it’s a broken mess) and its similarities to Warlock are what drew me in from WoW as that was my main for several years, but it does seem somewhat disjointed mixing dots and summons. Sure you can reason it out with enough effort but it’s not obvious how everything works together and even how then job plays it’s like you’re trying to do two different things at once rather than one cohesive thing. I like the idea of splitting those two things into two different jobs.

Summoner on its own has so very much potential to do things related to summoning it really doesn’t need all this stuff with Aetherflow/Fester/Miasma/etc. Even the permanent summons are little more than glorified dots that kinda take away from the awesomeness of summoning a primal.

What the new dot class could be and how to deal with SMN and SCH being paired idk, but it’s not impossible.

SALTY COMMENT INCOMING QUICK QUICK COVER YOUR EYES FAST FAST
I see so we should throw all the lore all the single arduous travel we did to make those demis out of the window . cause Sure you can reason it with enough effort but why be reasonable . i feel so bad for the devs everything they did was simply wasted . I'm done trying to give REASONING appearantely nobody liked summoner all they cared about was about bahamut going pew pew . the one caster that was supposed to be the complex one with the choice making all of it gone . Well then i hope you guys get what you want I'll play smn no matter what and ill be happy about it or so i hope after all i still think rdm is a disgrace of a rdm and it's unfun to me . but hey at least You guys will have fun wont you? and you guys will totally not complain again . because the reasonable thing makes no sense why would smn have poisons . not like the lore explains it right? Goodbye I'm done hopefully somebody else will make you reasonable instead of batshit insane.

[Siete]

SALTY COMMENT INCOMING QUICK QUICK COVER YOUR EYES FAST FAST
I see so we should throw all the lore all the single arduous travel we did to make those demis out of the window . cause Sure you can reason it with enough effort but why be reasonable . i feel so bad for the devs everything they did was simply wasted . I'm done trying to give REASONING appearantely nobody liked summoner all they cared about was about bahamut going pew pew . the one caster that was supposed to be the complex one with the choice making all of it gone . Well then i hope you guys get what you want I'll play smn no matter what and ill be happy about it or so i hope after all i still think rdm is a disgrace of a rdm and it's unfun to me . but hey at least You guys will have fun wont you? and you guys will totally not complain again . because the reasonable thing makes no sense why would smn have poisons . not like the lore explains it right? Goodbye I'm done hopefully somebody else will make you reasonable instead of batshit insane.

The same you said might as well go back to you.
You want to keep SMN in vegetative state just because you like it and just because of it's "lore", which is basically close to none? Other classes mention the reason of their skills and powers. Arcanist quests are more like Manipulante aether and... YEEHAW TACTICAL PLANNING WINS! Just that, it's far from specific at all. All the quests you do work regardless of the Arcanist's abilities because what really matters is not what you throw but how you "plan the battles".
Is that the lore you're talking about?
Perhaps you played it long ago and forgot?

[NovaBismarck]

I'm personally not a fan of the dot falloff issues we have now. Maybe it's an annoyance because there are so many other things to deal with during the rotation. There's quite a bit of potency loss from not having dots up and it makes for some annoying fights, ie the dungeon boss Cladoselache & Doliodus in Akadaemia Anyder where they keep swapping fairly quickly before you can reapply dots. I personally don't like it. Many of the dot falloff issues can be remedied by running content repetitively until your patterns are spot on, but I don't have issues like this playing other classes. It's not as big of an issue as the rigidity of 5.0 summoner. I'm most interested in seeing them alleviate the rigid structure and timing of the class and then streamlining it.

[Siete]

I'm personally not a fan of the dot falloff issues we have now. Maybe it's an annoyance because there are so many other things to deal with during the rotation. There's quite a bit of potency loss from not having dots up and it makes for some annoying fights, ie the dungeon boss Cladoselache & Doliodus in Akadaemia Anyder where they keep swapping fairly quickly before you can reapply dots. I personally don't like it. Many of the dot falloff issues can be remedied by running content repetitively until your patterns are spot on, but I don't have issues like this playing other classes. It's not as big of an issue as the rigidity of 5.0 summoner. I'm most interested in seeing them alleviate the rigid structure and timing of the class and then streamlining it.

If not deleted they could at least make dots not incur a global cooldown, making the SMN be able to get on casting something which deals damage straight after.
Or... I don't know, make the DoTs and Egi actually hit for something?

[HeulGDarian]

The same you said might as well go back to you.
You want to keep SMN in vegetative state just because you like it and just because of it's "lore", which is basically close to none? Other classes mention the reason of their skills and powers. Arcanist quests are more like Manipulante aether and... YEEHAW TACTICAL PLANNING WINS! Just that, it's far from specific at all. All the quests you do work regardless of the Arcanist's abilities because what really matters is not what you throw but how you "plan the battles".
Is that the lore you're talking about?
Perhaps you played it long ago and forgot?

No actually you would find that i don't want it in a vegetative state. That's why I've been presenting ideas that are solutions to various problem , all of them targeted so that they can be fun and more summoner like. the problem is Smn and his line up make perfect sense . You're a mage who buys time with weaker entities and other dark spells such as bio miasma and ruin, till you can get enough aether by using your aetherflow abilities transforming it into aether that will enable you to summon a stronger entity.
your summons are your biggest source of dmg both the small and the big but you yourself are still a mage so you're not useless outside of summoning.

What people say is that dots Don't fit the summoner and sometimes they will give examples of other summoner characters in the series. Taking only the summoner part and nothing else without realizing that no summoner ever was just summoning so the "TRUEST OF TRUE" summoner is just in your head. Someone wrote the lore but ill just summarise it summoning is darkness aspected magic so since to learn it we studied that we also learned ruin and bio miasma . At the shb final boss you can see the shadows also do ruin while he conjured specters . planning ahead is a necessity in order to perform the demi summon because if we die we lose all that aether and have to start all over again.

[Tulzscha]

SALTY COMMENT INCOMING QUICK QUICK COVER YOUR EYES FAST FAST
I see so we should throw all the lore all the single arduous travel we did to make those demis out of the window . cause Sure you can reason it with enough effort but why be reasonable . i feel so bad for the devs everything they did was simply wasted . I'm done trying to give REASONING appearantely nobody liked summoner all they cared about was about bahamut going pew pew . the one caster that was supposed to be the complex one with the choice making all of it gone . Well then i hope you guys get what you want I'll play smn no matter what and ill be happy about it or so i hope after all i still think rdm is a disgrace of a rdm and it's unfun to me . but hey at least You guys will have fun wont you? and you guys will totally not complain again . because the reasonable thing makes no sense why would smn have poisons . not like the lore explains it right? Goodbye I'm done hopefully somebody else will make you reasonable instead of batshit insane.

Er I never said to get rid of the egis or dumb the class down, I said I like how the job plays (especially dots, I like me some dots) but it doesn't seem to be very cohesive, there are the summons and then there are poisons and they don't interact with each other at all. At surface level the two things don't even make sense together, hence the threads about it. And if it does make perfect sense once you dig deep enough, should you really need to dig that deep to understand why your job does what it does? Even then, lore aside the two aspects still don't work with each other mechanically. As Atamis said it doesn't feel like a summoner.

But just as an example let's say our 3 egis were made into 30s cds that last 15s, can only have one active at a time, do some flashy attack when summoned, and are just bigger with maybe more niche EA abilities - dots, heals, buffs, debuffs, whatever - maybe even get a 3rd EA and another egi to allow for this level of options and potential support. They're still there all the time but with more choice, flexibility and impactfulness. It might not be a great idea but that's what I think of when it comes to summoners - having a slew of primals you can call on to help you, picking the one right for the situation, and having it make a big effect. Not so much spamming Ruin while dots tick away, which is the vast majority of our damage output.

[HanenJS]

I really liked the summoner class. DoTs + Pets made it a fun solo adventure. I never liked the changes that came after 2.x. I was hoping they would expand the summoning list, which they sort of did, and add even more DoTs to help with overall DPS. It was always fun to see HUGE dots just draining the life away from these monsters. but now... I love the BIRD. also, FFlogs, you might want to consider how many of that information also includes dancer mechanics. I've Rarely been a target for dancing partner when there is a blm around, but i've seen my dps hit near 12-14k with dancers.

[Siete]

I really liked the summoner class. DoTs + Pets made it a fun solo adventure. I never liked the changes that came after 2.x. I was hoping they would expand the summoning list, which they sort of did, and add even more DoTs to help with overall DPS. It was always fun to see HUGE dots just draining the life away from these monsters. but now... I love the BIRD.

Huge dots? They sort of hit for nothing.

[Atamis]

Personally I like how SMN plays at max lvl (low lvl it’s a broken mess) and its similarities to Warlock are what drew me in from WoW

Ironically this is the part i detest about summoner. Love Summoners, but the XIV version doesn't feel like one simply because its warlock lite.

[dinnertime]

I don't mind DoTs on SMN because it's what gives the job more consistent damage and mobility but I just find it annoying how 5.0 SMN revolves around it more than ever with Ruin working like Fester. It's very, very annoying and should be reverted back into raw damage.

Also I do feel DoT management is pretty annoying now because I find myself actually waiting a few seconds after my DoTs expired at certain points so I can use Tri-Disaster on CD, and this wasn't really a problem before. Personally I wish we had a more reliable way to refresh DoTs like Bard does. Also they should just add Ruination into Bio already.