Summoner Early Post-Launch Feedback at level 80

[dinnertime]

If only they could eliminate those Egi Assaults for good, have Devotion be not pet-based, and allow free casts of Ruin IV during Bahamut phase. Then we would have only one button for Summon Bahamut/Phoenix and other for Ahk Morn/Revelation with their current abilities for the duration intact. But then again, the pets would only serve as our third dot or auto attack.

What's funny is they did exactly this for PvP SMN. It baffles me that they didn't think to do it on the PvE version.

[Taranok]

What's funny is they did exactly this for PvP SMN. It baffles me that they didn't think to do it on the PvE version.

The PVP designers are completely separate from the PVE designers, with one noteworthy exception. The PVP designers are required to listen to the PVE team and incorporate important pieces of the class into the PVP design. This is why DB and DP have been in both PVP summoners. Otherwise they make a massively simplified version of the PvE rotation balanced around both a limited set of skills and maximum class theme. This is also why the current PVP SMN has Aetherflow, Trance based on spending Aetherflow stacks, and still has DoTs that seriously feel terrible to use and WHY ARE THEY THERE PVP DEVS?! But they got rid of the egis, which weren't there in SB either, and as such don't have egi assault.

All of these factors combine to massively streamline classes, and this is why a 3-step combo is on 1 button in PVP instead of on 3 separate buttons like it is in PVE.

It just so happens that a lot of really good design choices are made by the PVP team in their "simplification" of the jobs that would have made a lot of sense if the PVE teams did it as well.

This isn't the first time I heard this and understand the why. Just like AF in 3.0 and 4.0, DWT needs to be constantly rolling with minimum stops. Once it's up and need to be used again and more importantly when the boss transitions (Eden Prime Move) that ability needs to rolling.

I disagree, but mostly because this type of forced desync is something every job deals with to some degree. Cooldowns being forcibly held by boss mechanics isn't something new, and it just means you come in swinging once the boss drops again. From Trick Attack to Drill to Ley Lines, there are very important mechanics that get held up. Hell, I've seen transitions as a MCH make it so I had to delay Wildfire because the timing just wasn't right. This is normal.

SMN is unique in these problems in that it has not one, but several core mechanics that can be screwed up by boss jumps that, once desynced, basically cannot be synced again because too much damage is tied up in them, meaning you have to keep them rolling but it doesn't feel very good forcing them, especially with how bloated the class is and how often it has to constantly be pushing buttons.

If you made it so only Trance was your delayed mechanic, then it wouldn't matter half as much because at least it will be consistent about it, and restarting the rotation from there, while not fantastic, at least isn't awful. But none of that matters right now because the class is a hot mess to handle as is.

[HeulGDarian]

What's funny is they did exactly this for PvP SMN. It baffles me that they didn't think to do it on the PvE version.

pls no smn losing actions would suck.

[dinnertime]

words

I think Aetherflow and Trance being Aetherflow-based was fine and should be reverted back into PvE SMN but that's just me. Not exactly like how PvP does it though.

pls no smn losing actions would suck.

I'm not saying it should be exactly like PvP SMN. What SMN (also) needs right now is to cut down on buttons because there's plenty of them that are locked behind and locked from other abilities anyway.

But I'd argue SMN needs some actions removed and/or adjusted because some of it makes the job unnecessarily busy for most people.

[Besame]

Leveled her to 71, don't care for it and tank pet is gone so she can sit, that is all.

[Dyvid]

Well the reason I wanted raiders opinion on this was because they are the ones really maximaxing the job; lining up group wide and such. Another thing to consider is if they merge DWT with Bahamut, what is the mechanic to get there and what fills the gap for 40s until that point. Also is the fact is if SE is actually willing to do a overhaul to make it work, which i don't based on their track record. I agree FBT + Phoenix does feel good and i'm very annoyed SE didn't really think Summoner through during the design for 5.0. They had a lot of good idea but just toss them all together assuming it would work. Instead we got a clunky Frankenstein of a monster.

[HeulGDarian]

Well the reason I wanted raiders opinion on this was because they are the ones really maximaxing the job; lining up group wide and such. Another thing to consider is if they merge DWT with Bahamut, what is the mechanic to get there and what fills the gap for 40s until that point. Also is the fact is if SE is actually willing to do a overhaul to make it work, which i don't based on their track record. I agree FBT + Phoenix does feel good and i'm very annoyed SE didn't really think Summoner through during the design for 5.0. They had a lot of good idea but just toss them all together assuming it would work. Instead we got a clunky Frankenstein of a monster.

I'd say give it some time till like 5.1 that was when 4.0 smn surprised and became the most busted job in the game . Good times

[HeulGDarian]

Btw am i the only one who would like an overburst equivalent to ruin 2 and a better sounds effect than tribind could be like 40 potency .

[Taranok]

Btw am i the only one who would like an overburst equivalent to ruin 2 and a better sounds effect than tribind could be like 40 potency .

Honestly, if the devs wanted to very lazily "fix" the class, making every single spell short of Raise instant cast would go a long way towards alleviating most of the issues it has. I've often described SMN as busier than BRD (It's not if you go by raw APM, but it feels busier), and using parallels like the class being a caster doing its worst impression of an rDPS. So if that's the direction they want to take it, just literally turning the class into a wannabe rDPS would fix a lot of its problems. It will still have terrible flow, but in practice it won't be as bad because you at least will have unlimited instant casts to get everything out reasonable.

They could even copy Bard (a bit) and turn Tri-disaster into an anytime usable GCD that always applies ruination and Bio/Miasma (and, you know, remove Bio/Miasma) and it will be somewhat homogenized with Bard and won't feel like a Caster, but it can limp along in this weird state for a pretty long while until the devs can properly fix the rotation and turn it back into a caster.

[Dyvid]

Honestly, if the devs wanted to very lazily "fix" the class, making every single spell short of Raise instant cast would go a long way towards alleviating most of the issues it has. I've often described SMN as busier than BRD (It's not if you go by raw APM, but it feels busier), and using parallels like the class being a caster doing its worst impression of an rDPS. So if that's the direction they want to take it, just literally turning the class into a wannabe rDPS would fix a lot of its problems. It will still have terrible flow, but in practice it won't be as bad because you at least will have unlimited instant casts to get everything out reasonable.

They could even copy Bard (a bit) and turn Tri-disaster into an anytime usable GCD that always applies ruination and Bio/Miasma (and, you know, remove Bio/Miasma) and it will be somewhat homogenized with Bard and won't feel like a Caster, but it can limp along in this weird state for a pretty long while until the devs can properly fix the rotation and turn it back into a caster.

Well it is a caster, SMN has to cast something lol. Out of the 3 summoner is still the most mobile of the Magic DPS group.