Thread: 5.0 MNK Problems

I feel like a lot of issues could be resolved with just our traits alone. We have 7 traits right now that really only need to be 3. The 2 Enhanced Greased Lightnings shouldn't be traits and you should just be able to go into GL 3 the second you get the ability. Deep Meditation should only be 1 trait at 70% chance instead of 2 traits. Enhanced Tackle is really odd since all it does is give 2 charges to our tackle. This really isn't a trait and the other classes have their charges just built into the ability. That just leaves Enhanced Fists of Fire, Deep Meditation II, and Riddle of Wind. That gives room for 4 traits to mess with.

1. Wind Tackle - Upgrades Shoulder Tackle into Wind Tackle. Wind Tackle grants Greased Lightning. Maximum Charges: 2
2. Enhanced Mantra - Mantra will also now give Chakra Focus to all players. Chakra Focus Effect: 30% chance you open a chakra when party members under this effect executes a spell. Duration 15 seconds
3. Enhanced Fists of Earth - Fists of Earth will halt the expiration of Greased Lightning. You cannot gain anymore Greased Lightnings or Chakra while in Fists of Earth
4. Chakra Overflow - Upon using a skill that requires Chakra you have a 50% chance to gain Chakra Overflow. Chakra Overflow Effect: Six-Sided Star's recast timer isn't applied to all other weaponskills. Effect expires on use. Duration 15 seconds

With these changes, I'd think it would fix a decent amount of Monks problems. It would fix our ability to get stacks of GL and lets us use Tornado Kick again, gives more chakra that isn't relied upon our party having physical dps, lets use hold GL while doing moving mechanics and in between pulls, and gives a reason to use Six-Sided Star more often. I would say there's 3 abilities I'd like to tweek though. First would be Brotherhood needs to just hit all party members. There's always some Bard or Machinist that loves to be at max range. Twin Snake's damage buff needs to be like twice as long. It's annoying to have to constantly use our weakest move to keep that buff up. Finally Fist of Wind needs to have a passive 5-10% skill speed added in. GL4 should be significantly faster than GL3.

Originally Posted by Chill_Ghost

4. Chakra Overflow - Upon using a skill that requires Chakra you have a 50% chance to gain Chakra Overflow. Chakra Overflow Effect: Six-Sided Star's recast timer isn't applied to all other weaponskills. Effect expires on use. Duration 15 seconds

I REALLY like this idea! A 400 OGCD potency attack is a bit too generous, but honestly I would really love for this to be a thing. Ship him to Headquarters!!

Originally Posted by Chill_Ghost

I feel like a lot of issues could be resolved with just our traits alone. [...]

Unfortunately this doesn't fix the problem. Firstly, they can't make the charged gap closers combo actions which is why Wind Tackle was removed. You'd need a new oGCD which grants a GL stack instead. Secondly, you're still left with two oGCDs missing which is the primary culprit leading MNK to feel more boring compared to its SB counterpart. Thirdly, these changes you're suggesting would require a total rebalance of the potencies of the entire job to balance it out with encounter design. The issue isn't a matter of MNK's viability, it's the experience of how it plays, so by doing these things it would require hefty rebalancing which is just too costly time and money-wise. Potencies at the moment are fine, it's an issue of the lack of weaving which is where MNK always got its apparent sense of speed from, just like all the other jobs in the game. It's the lack of stuff to do during slowdown windows and lack of recovery which are the issues. And fourth, it's just way too complicated and involved a fix for something that really just needs a simple solution:

Put Somersault and Axe Kick into PvE with 120-second recast timers. Done. All the problems get fixed. You get your GL stack-generating oGCD, you get your two oGCDs for weaving, and the recast timer makes them balanced and allows for a loopable rotation every 120 seconds. Soon as RoF's recast is back up you're ready to rock and roll because everything else will line up accordingly. And the best part is, it's an affordable solution because the work for those oGCDs is already done.

FWIW I did find that it's possible to do a sort of faux Double Tornado Kick Opener, though it requires a Skill Speed of over 1600 and you still run into the same issue of you having a window in which you have not much else you can do during that time, and the opener still requires you cheese the second GL stack with Anatman + server ticks, which is just not as out-the-can as just using an oGCD so it doesn't feel good to use. It feels like abusing Anatman for something it wasn't meant to do, and it results in DPS uptime loss.

I will post the rotation once I have more time to test it out.

As for FoW passives... nah.

From what I can gather, you basically want to meld SkS onto anything that'll take it. I still don't have my full set of Ronkan gear and have two pieces of left-side gear left to go before I start upgrading my other 4 jewelry pieces (I was a bad girl and decided to get the ones with SkS on them first instead of the proper weapon>chest/legs>arms/head/boots>waist>jewelry order... for science) so until I test them out at the new Stone, Sky, Sea dummies out in Eulmore, I can't say for sure if the SkS will make up appropriately for the damage output. The lowest GCD speed I have right now is 1.89 which is still too slow for me. It may very well be that they want to encourage melding to determine play style and rotation choice because there were those players who loved the double-TK opener and those players who felt it an abomination, and it may ultimately come down to melds. But until I can test at those Eulmore dummies, I can't say for sure if the speed increase appropriately makes up for the damage loss. It might.

One thing's for sure, though. I can confirm that they want to encourage double-MNKs in a party with stacked Brotherhoods. The damage boost from that is outrageous and ultra noticeable, and benefits the tanks, too. Even in 4-player dungeons with one tank, it's a night-and-day difference with the damage output versus a solo MNK. Co-MNKing is definitely a thing they want to encourage, and that I can safely say DOES feel good. Like, really good. Brotherhood windows and chakra usage feels so nice with two MNKs in a party.

Overall I think that dealing with traits and inventing new ones is too much and needs testing and rebalancing and that's just not worth it. In the immediate short term, two oGCDs that are inexpensive to implement without having to change too much of what's already there just feels like the simplest and most cost-effective way to go. So long as one of them gives GL stacks and the recast timers are balanced appropriately, I'm absolutely certain all other concerns would wash away when you can use that oGCD where you'd normally have Wind Tackle. Then it's all about just finding creative ways to use SSS and fill those windows, and you're pretty golden. Luckily SSS's recast does decrease with higher SkS, so that's what I'm currently testing for.