The Problem with Paladin

[Aceofspades]

you took what i said out of context, I said in it's element WAR is a better tank but not when tanking 1v1 boss fights, in no way is WAR superior. AND im not even biast, I used to love my MRD b4 they gimped it but facts are facts mate and I base all my conclusions off of parsed fights in wich we have 2 or more parses to verify findings are acurate. The fact that i can back my words with snap shots of Parses and you can not only further drives my belife that your simply trolling becuase you made previous statements that are simply and factually false and I called you out on it. And as far as PLD doing DPS i was being nice, AOE WAR has the edge but PLD can deal , (and i have in several instances) dealt 3rd or 4th on the parser , with 5 BLMs/THMs in party. But if it will end your unfounded rant, go with WAR, its easier to learn to tank with and any new comer to the game can fill like they know what he/she is doing very easly. but as you said, thats just for now, expect PLD to make a comeback to those who like the easy fix.

[TirionCrey]

you took what i said out of context, I said in it's element WAR is a better tank but not when tanking 1v1 boss fights, in no way is WAR superior. AND im not even biast, I used to love my MRD b4 they gimped it but facts are facts mate and I base all my conclusions off of parsed fights in wich we have 2 or more parses to verify findings are acurate. The fact that i can back my words with snap shots of Parses and you can not only further drives my belife that your simply trolling becuase you made previous statements that are simply and factually false and I called you out on it. And as far as PLD doing DPS i was being nice, AOE WAR has the edge but PLD can deal , (and i have in several instances) dealt 3rd or 4th on the parser , with 5 BLMs/THMs in party. But if it will end your unfounded rant, go with WAR, its easier to learn to tank with and any new comer to the game can fill like they know what he/she is doing very easly. but as you said, thats just for now, expect PLD to make a comeback to those who like the easy fix.

If your PLD is above BLMs in the parse, your BLMs suck ass...don't conclude from the lack of skill of your Pt members to the lack of skill from others.

This way obviously you got no hate issues, when your DDs are unable to actually DD...

Good DDs will pull off hate from a PLD whenever they want. And stop using Ifrit as an example, Ifrit is a stupid j/k.

PS: When tanking Ifrit on my WAR, that you say so yourself, deals more DMG then PLD, I'm last on our parsers dmg wise, except for the healers...so your so called DDs obviously do something wrong...

PPS: How long does it take your group to take down Ifrit? We usually get him down to 30% when he casts Hellfire, then it all depends on how often he wants to use his Dash shit til we get him down...

[GreyJorildyn]

My rant is founded in the inaccuracies of your statements. I can't really see how I took anything you said out of context when it was simply conjecture by you.

WAR is a better single target tank than PLD too. Hopefully PLD will find its niche. It was my favorite job in XI and it was the first I unlocked after the patch because I want to play it. It's just not firing on all cylinders right now.

[Phobos]

I see people are still making comments about PLD damage taken vs WAR damage taken.

While this update is nice, and PLD will take less damage due to shield blocks from DV, people seem to fail to realize a few things;

1. PLD has about 1k less inherent HP than WAR.
2. PLD has NOTHING over WAR in terms of consistant Magic Damage Taken reduction (sure, a better sentinel but you can't count on that)

These two points are key here. While PLD may take a little less damage than WAR after this update, it's likely that we will still resort to WAR's to tank. Magic damage and severe damage are just less potent vs a WAR's HP pool. Most WHM's will be capping either job's HP pool whenever they cure, so having more HP is just plain better. Because PLD has no advantage vs magical attacks over WAR, and anything where PLD vs WAR matters does magical attacks, WAR will win.

Also, the DV update is nice but I'd still like to see some key changes to shields:
1. dlvl should have less of an effect on blocks
2. make battledance materia have block rate as well (some pieces have parry and block, it makes sense)
3. shields should be able to block magical attacks
4. Outmaneuver is still junk, I'd like to see it improved upon even if that means decreasing DV's potency.

A few of those changes, and we wouldn't care that our HP is lower. You must consider the HP pool as being modified by damage taken. If you take less damage than a WAR, your HP is just "worth more" than a WAR's HP, balancing it out. The problem is, though, that we do not take less damage than a WAR on the importand "omgdontoneshotme" attacks.

All that being said, this is mostly speculation and I intend to test out PLD on some stuff tonight. I'm not holding out much hope on the PLD vs WAR front, but in PLD vs GLA I think we've made some key progress.

Also, side-note: I hate Holy Succor... Why do we have something to cure someone else... It's just rewarding tanks that suck at keeping hate.

[HoolieWho]

Also, side-note: I hate Holy Succor... Why do we have something to cure someone else... It's just rewarding tanks that suck at keeping hate.

1. Mobs have hate reset moves.
2. Adds don't always pop with hate on the tank.
3. Stray mobs don't only aggro tanks.

There are plenty of reasons to want to cure someone else while the WHM focuses on you.

[Aceofspades]

as far as hate control gose btw, AOE heals work great for that not to meantion helps your dps without distracting your healer, and another realy good reason to have your tank able to heal the party , other then hate control, If your tank can handle the fight with one healer , that opens room for another DD, if this is the case, the tank being able to keep the DPS portion of the party alive or at least help with that is simply usefull, sanguine rite (pretty sure i spelled that wrong) and cure works great with devine veil

[TirionCrey]

as far as hate control gose btw, AOE heals work great for that not to meantion helps your dps without distracting your healer, and another realy good reason to have your tank able to heal the party , other then hate control, If your tank can handle the fight with one healer , that opens room for another DD, if this is the case, the tank being able to keep the DPS portion of the party alive or at least help with that is simply usefull, sanguine rite (pretty sure i spelled that wrong) and cure works great with devine veil

Aceofspades...you clearly got no clue what you're talking about. I don't want to be blunt, but of all the people defending PLD/GLA, you are the only one that obviously has no clue (I blame that on Ifrit being the hardest fight for you...)

First...Sanguine Rite works well with Cure and Divine Veil? Well, we lose access to Sanguine Rite once we are PLD...

WAR goes down fast after he pulls hate off the PLD? You seem to fail recognizing that WAR takes just as much DMG on getting hit as the PLD, while having over 1k HP more then PLD...which is the whole point everyone is arguing about.

The lower HP Pool of PLD wouldn't be much of an issue, if he actually did what he is supposed to do and that is being the DMG Mitigation Tank...sure he deals less dmg, sure he generates less enmity...yeah he can heal himself, but he will drop to the floor before the WAR does, while WAR deals more dmg, generates more enmity and get's the job done better then PLD...that's the whole point of these discussion but you seem to ignore them or are unable to see them.

edit: Just checked your lodestone profile...Ifrit is actually all you ever got done...no Moogle, nothing in the new dungeon...so how can you even argue with the people who actually tried PLD on the content and clearly know it is not working as it should.

Your arguments are not viable just from the fact that you haven't even beaten the stuff on your PLD...

[Daniel_Fury]

I find that when I use PLD, I take less damage on any boss enemy (physical damage.) I also don't find there to be a problem between PLD or WAR. If my party is using the easy safe mode setup of full ranged DD, then WAR tanks fine, but if my party want to use a melee setup, let's say on a boss like Chimera, PLD all the way. PLD may have less hp than WAR but it looks after melee DD's and sometimes ranged DD's a hell of alot better than WAR does and that kind support is what I prefer.

[Velhart]

as far as hate control gose btw, AOE heals work great for that not to meantion helps your dps without distracting your healer, and another realy good reason to have your tank able to heal the party , other then hate control, If your tank can handle the fight with one healer , that opens room for another DD, if this is the case, the tank being able to keep the DPS portion of the party alive or at least help with that is simply usefull, sanguine rite (pretty sure i spelled that wrong) and cure works great with devine veil

People are not saying it isn't viable, PLD just isn't good.

[Alerith]

People are not saying it isn't viable, PLD just isn't good.

It's not even that PLD isn't good. It's just that WAR is better. In it's current stat, PLD can still see you to victory.