The Problem with Paladin

[Klive]

I hope both of you are able to see the one and only flaw in your examples...

PS: Little hint...if PLD is not the main tank in the fight, there is no reason he should be there.

I've been running as off-tank in AV and DH, not CC yet. It is not a bad setup. You do not need a second WHM if you have a good paladin. To each their own though. Not many LS are willing to experiment will group builds.

[Andrien]

They did kind of... outmaneuver + divine veil. You'll block every time getting some mana back. With the hight block rate comes less damage, so you will have to spam less heals. You are not going to get the returns from sanguine rite, but still better than nothing.

Outmaneuver mp return is gone with 1 Holy Succor. I rather something more potent that trades TP for MP.

[Shiggysonson]

I hope both of you are able to see the one and only flaw in your examples...




PS: Little hint...if PLD is not the main tank in the fight, there is no reason he should be there.

PPS: In order for the AoE Regen of Divine Veil to be useful, it should be granted on the person casting the Cure on him and the people surrounding THAT person, cause if you're close enough to the PLD to get hit by it, you're doing something wrong...

It's so simple to fix the shit, but Se is just not able to see it...I just don't get why...

PPPS: Forgot to mention...who the fuck wants a Cover on BLM before he AoEs, when WAR can just Collusion, which will actually take the BLMs hate of his AoE to you, instead of just taking hits for him until Cover is down and the BLM gets hit after...

Because a paladin with divine veil up would take way less damage than a warrior. O_O
Because collusion doesn't last 15 seconds like cover does. O_O
Because divine veil was probably designed to get regen on melee dd jobs because you know... they tend to take more damage than ranged dd. O_O

[Peptaru]

Now I feel more comfortable thinking of Pld in terms of a job. Pair a PLD with a bard, MP is taken care off. Run in to sing after the BIG ws, and while you're in melee range you can even have the PLD use cover on the little singy person! Dun worry squishy person, i love your singing voice so much that i'll cover you while you sing! (that should help out some mnks too in case they are havin a bad sucker punch day)

[Evaddaragon]

I look at that list of changes and the first thing that comes to mind is SE saying, "what are the simplest adjustments we can make that require the least amount of testing and we can realistically implement in a week." I have to believe that SE will be making further adjustments in 1.22 because these changes look more like trying to reattach a severed limb with a band aid than they do an actual fix. I like the lower cooldown on Spirits Within and the changes to Divine Veil, but this is hardly a fix. Still can't understand why Steel Cyclone gets a 30 Sec cooldown while Spirits Within is still stuck at a minute.

Well, that one is pretty easy. WAR's enmity combo is Heavy Swing + Skull Sunder (this one being the actual WS that grants an enmity bonus) + Steel Cyclone. It also costs 1000 TP. Steel Cyclone is mostly a DD AoE WS that happens to give you survivability... granted that you crit and activated Rampage, which works a lot on even strength or trash mobs, and not as much on bosses.

Spirits Within has a recast of 1 minute, but it also only costs 250 TP, granted you block in the first place. While it's true we do not block as much on bosses, no one knows for now exactly how the "Blocks all physical attacks from the front" effect from Divine Veil works. Neither do we know, for now, how the enmity spike from Spirits Within compares to Steel Cyclone's. I'd ask people to please TEST the new feature in a few situations before making assumptions whether or not this helps.

On another note, let me remind you that WAR has ONE WS combo that increases enmity : the one I described above, which comes from MRD. PLD will get TWO such combos : Phalanx + Spirits Within, AND Fast Blade + Flat Blade (this WS being the enmity spike one), on a TEN second recast, given to them from GLA. Last I heard, unless you wear ACC gear, WAR does NOT have a naturally better ACC than PLD.

As for the MP regeneration effect, once again, I'll have to wait and test it, but I don't have a problem, at first glance, because I haven't seen anyone complaining about having to activate both Rampage and Steel Cyclone in order to do massive HP regen, right ??? Nothing wrong at all with combining abilities to increase efficiency, thank you very much.

Also, which piece enhanced Divine Veil, already ? And which piece enhanced Cover ? What were the enhancements already ? Right... increased duration for Divine Veil, AND decreased damage for Cover. Guess that makes AF slightly more useful, too, right ?

All in all though, I'd ask the whiners to PLEASE WAIT and TEST the features before complaining it didn't "fix" anything. While this is not what I'd expect them to do, at first glance we can agree that something is at least attempted to be done.

Don't even waste your time telling me whatever argument you will invoke for believing this has fixed nothing until at least a bit later this week and some testing. I'll get back with my opinion on these changes once I've done some testing myself. Thank you very much.

[Klive]

^^ Listen to that guy.

[Jinko]

I made this post in the battle sub-forum if you guys could take a look and support it or make suggestion would be good.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Block-Paladins.

[Treach]

No reason to wear block rate gear with 100% every 20/60 seconds, better to focus on block value if that actually does anything.

I don't really worry about physical attacks though, it's the 2000+ WS attacks from chimera that worry me if I get animation locked. Also taking two mandible bites from the princess and marshall at the same time hurts bad if I'm stuck in animation which kinda makes me want PLD but then I remember I'll probably never be able to cure myself and probably won't be able to hold aggro on both of them

I really hope they have more plans for adjustments and just rushed this out to shut us up for awhile.

[Phobos]

I am so in love with this update. Good start. Definitely will need some adjustments after players get a hold of it all but I'm glad to see some decent changes have been made.

[FraenirVolsung]

All in all though, I'd ask the whiners to PLEASE WAIT and TEST the features before complaining it didn't "fix" anything. While this is not what I'd expect them to do, at first glance we can agree that something is at least attempted to be done.

Don't even waste your time telling me whatever argument you will invoke for believing this has fixed nothing until at least a bit later this week and some testing. I'll get back with my opinion on these changes once I've done some testing myself. Thank you very much.

You make a lot of great points. I really and truly hope that you are right, and after some testing and play time with the adjustments we can all say that SE nailed it or at the very least took steps in the right direction. I will gladly eat crow the first time someone actually asks me to come as a PLD over WAR. I think that's what us so called "whiners" are worried about.

In order for PLD to be useful it has to be the best tank for at least half the content in game. It has to excel at something. It's never going to be invited as a DD when WAR, MNK, DRG, and even BRD can out do it. It's never going to be invited as a healer/back up tank when WHM heals infinitely better. PLD is going to be invited because it is the best tank for the battle at hand. I love PLD, always have. I hope these changes are as great as they might prove to be after some testing. I look at the list of adjustments and don't see enough to turn PLD into the best tank for any battle. But like I said, I hope I'm wrong and I'll gladly eat crow the first time I'm asked to come PLD instead of WAR.