The Problem with Paladin

[psykhaotic]

I tanked Ifrit a number of times yesterday and found it much easier with a PLD and with a handful of other playing using jobs, compared to when I was a GLA.

In my opinion, a PLD shouldn't have to prioritize MP recovery. That's the mages' job. The BRD should be using the MP regen song on healers so that THEY can do their job of keeping the tank alive. As a PLD, I used my MP only for healing myself when my HP got relatively low, and also for casting Stoneskin on myself. Doing this, the lowest I got with my MP was just around half.

That said, potions shouldn't be underestimated. But if your priority is maintaining enmity, you *could* keep curing yourself and using ethers to compensate for lost MP... or you could just use a Maddening Potion.

[Phobos]

I tanked Ifrit a number of times yesterday and found it much easier with a PLD and with a handful of other playing using jobs, compared to when I was a GLA.

In my opinion, a PLD shouldn't have to prioritize MP recovery. That's the mages' job. The BRD should be using the MP regen song on healers so that THEY can do their job of keeping the tank alive. As a PLD, I used my MP only for healing myself when my HP got relatively low, and also for casting Stoneskin on myself. Doing this, the lowest I got with my MP was just around half.

That said, potions shouldn't be underestimated. But if your priority is maintaining enmity, you *could* keep curing yourself and using ethers to compensate for lost MP... or you could just use a Maddening Potion.

Are you sure you had an easier time with PLD because of PLD, or because you had a BRD and a WHM where before you may have only had a CNJ?

I just bring this up because honestly, I see no reason for PLD to outdo GLA as it stands, unless BRD allowed you to succor frequently.

EDIT: Based on some of the replies, specifically this one, I should not have come across this issue if we had a BRD for the WHM, or perhaps a second WHM. Even so, I still beleive Outmaneuver should be fixed, and the Defense boost for PLD should actually be noticeable for the loss of HP. To me, GLA still seems to have a bit more over time survivability with the same enmity tools.

[psykhaotic]

Are you sure you had an easier time with PLD because of PLD, or because you had a BRD and a WHM where before you may have only had a CNJ?

I just bring this up because honestly, I see no reason for PLD to outdo GLA as it stands, unless BRD allowed you to succor frequently.

As I mentioned (and I realize now that I used the wrong word and thus my sentence didn't make sense), it was with other players doing jobs (as opposed to classes). So the other jobs made it easier for sure, but I also attribute it to the added enmity and healing strength in the PLD artifact armor. There might've been other things that made it easier, too; I imagine the added Defense you get as a PLD helped since I didn't have to get healed as often, despite the decreased HP. It could just be in my head, though.

Also, I stuck with Cure and only used Holy Succor on my party if I felt like it. (I'm pretty selfish for a PLD I guess.) I know Holy Succor uses a lot more MP, so maybe sticking with Cure for self-cures helped with the MP conservation?

[Phobos]

As I mentioned (and I realize now that I used the wrong word and thus my sentence didn't make sense), it was with other players doing jobs (as opposed to classes). So the other jobs made it easier for sure, but I also attribute it to the added enmity and healing strength in the PLD artifact armor. There might've been other things that made it easier, too; I imagine the added Defense you get as a PLD helped since I didn't have to get healed as often, despite the decreased HP. It could just be in my head, though.

Also, I stuck with Cure and only used Holy Succor on my party if I felt like it. (I'm pretty selfish for a PLD I guess.) I know Holy Succor uses a lot more MP, so maybe sticking with Cure for self-cures helped with the MP conservation?

Ah, I think I understand you a bit more here. Perhaps I'll avoid succor more, though I was mostly using it on myself. I still wonder though, if you were just using cure would GLA have been better? Perhaps we'll just need more input but I feel like the big advantage of PLD for you is the same as it is for me (and likely others): the gear.

The gear is great, though I think it should add a tad more defense (my defense is comparable to my WAR friend in his full AF). I think the best test would be a GLA does the fight in their GLA gear, then again on PLD but in their GLA gear. Supposedly the AF gear is supposed to be a little better than double-melded gear (at least I thought I read that somewhere), so someone who has that or more might find GLA definitively better or worse. I don't mean to say PLD can't tank, but compared to GLA the abilities given just don't seem good enough (compared to the difference between the other classes and their jobs enhancing their specific roles as you would expect).

[elreed]

Paladin is a tank, Bard has mp songs if u check the jobs carefully you will see that what SE wants is not a PLD, WHM and rest BLM party, they want all classes to be needed, in the Ant princess fight (that i havent beat yet) you actually see this strategy shown more clearly.

You need a full tank (PLD) a trash tank (WAR) a healer (WHM) a buffer (BRD) and AoE damage dealers almost every other damage dealing job has AoE ws, so u can go with a 2nd BRD DRG's MNK's or an extra WAR or BLM's, thats the thing we were missing an especific role and right now you can only complete certain role and thats it, that makes things easier for every class/job now you wont get to be the class/job of the month like we were....

[Andrien]

Paladin is a tank, Bard has mp songs if u check the jobs carefully you will see that what SE wants is not a PLD, WHM and rest BLM party, they want all classes to be needed, in the Ant princess fight (that i havent beat yet) you actually see this strategy shown more clearly.

You need a full tank (PLD) a trash tank (WAR) a healer (WHM) a buffer (BRD) and AoE damage dealers almost every other damage dealing job has AoE ws, so u can go with a 2nd BRD DRG's MNK's or an extra WAR or BLM's, thats the thing we were missing an especific role and right now you can only complete certain role and thats it, that makes things easier for every class/job now you wont get to be the class/job of the month like we were....

you missed the part that a GLA can do it easier, and in the future there will be more classes and jobs to choose from.

[Phobos]

Paladin is a tank, Bard has mp songs if u check the jobs carefully you will see that what SE wants is not a PLD, WHM and rest BLM party, they want all classes to be needed, in the Ant princess fight (that i havent beat yet) you actually see this strategy shown more clearly.

You need a full tank (PLD) a trash tank (WAR) a healer (WHM) a buffer (BRD) and AoE damage dealers almost every other damage dealing job has AoE ws, so u can go with a 2nd BRD DRG's MNK's or an extra WAR or BLM's, thats the thing we were missing an especific role and right now you can only complete certain role and thats it, that makes things easier for every class/job now you wont get to be the class/job of the month like we were....

While your points are valid, requirements have simply shifted from:

Need: Tank, Healer, BLMs (or whatever you want)

to:

Need: Paladin, Healer, Bard, Warrior, etc.

The requirements are more spread out, but you still have specific classes/jobs you're looking to fill.

Also GLA > PLD is more my point, as the first reply mentions

[Treach]

Gladiator works for moogle and ifrit no problem, no nerfs and slight buffs for 1.21.

Gladiator doesn't have any disadvantages compared to pld for either new raid since you pretty much just go thm/blm and sleep to next boss making waiting on a 15 min cd unreasonable.

Fuck this shit, just going to play thm and go back to never dying and being top dps.

[Bremen]

Too many posts here for me to read;

PLD is useful in balanced parties with someone to sanguine rite them, or better yet, to give them ballad. In those situations, (more-so the second) the PLD can spam Holy Succor for hate-- and by that extension-- hold hate better than a GLA and additionally be able to heal themselves more effectively.

Another thing; PLD is useful for people with unmelded/poorly melded gear for their gladiators.

TLDR: Use PLD when you have the proper setup, otherwise tank on Gladiator.

edit: as a second thought; has anyone made a list concerning the enmity values of the new PLD abilities? I've looked around a little, and would be interested to see numbers.

[ChickNorris]

Play the PLD like you never heard of GLD. Find solutions and ways to fight that are new for you. That is the fun of the thing.