The Problem with Paladin

[Phobos]

So lets say paladins do get a better way of managing MP. What will happen to bards? Sure bards have other good abilities that make them great, but giving this ability to paladins is just adding another reason to take a black mage over a bard. Look at the big picture.

As I said, there are other ways to make paladins better than gladiators in a balanced party without ruining the balance of the system.

I do want to see BRD being used for its purpose, but I think its kind of silly that it basically NEEDS to refresh the PLD and likely the WHM. What about the other 5 people? They aren't necessarily mages and may be too close to the WHM or PLD where it's not easy to give them too many buffs. That and BRD should still be able to DD some rather than run around singing to everyone.

[Shiggysonson]

I do want to see BRD being used for its purpose, but I think its kind of silly that it basically NEEDS to refresh the PLD and likely the WHM. What about the other 5 people? They aren't necessarily mages and may be too close to the WHM or PLD where it's not easy to give them too many buffs. That and BRD should still be able to DD some rather than run around singing to everyone.

I haven't unlocked bard yet so I don't know how bards work 100%, but is there no way to split songs in a party? Especially for fights like ifrit where positioning the group is fairly easy. For example, have the white mage + black mages stand together for ballad, and have DoW stand somewhere else for accuracy or whatever it is they want. Of course this will be difficult for some fights, but nothing some coordination of the party can't fix. I mean bards did this for years in FFXI.

I do agree that bards should not be constantly running around to do songs as they can do some decent damage. However, the fact that SE decided to give them access to conjurer and thaumaturge abilities gives me the idea that the job was designed to act as more of a support than damage.

I just think the job system is so fragile in terms of balance. It seems very hard to get right where all jobs have their own unique, awesome abilities, but at the same time not so overpowered as to make classes and other jobs useless. In my opinion, they did a very good job with the balance. I'm not saying it's perfect and doesn't need any fixes. They just need to be VERY careful.

[Phobos]

I haven't unlocked bard yet so I don't know how bards work 100%, but is there no way to split songs in a party? Especially for fights like ifrit where positioning the group is fairly easy. For example, have the white mage + black mages stand together for ballad, and have DoW stand somewhere else for accuracy or whatever it is they want. Of course this will be difficult for some fights, but nothing some coordination of the party can't fix. I mean bards did this for years in FFXI.

I do agree that bards should not be constantly running around to do songs as they can do some decent damage. However, the fact that SE decided to give them access to conjurer and thaumaturge abilities gives me the idea that the job was designed to act as more of a support than damage.

I just think the job system is so fragile in terms of balance. It seems very hard to get right where all jobs have their own unique, awesome abilities, but at the same time not so overpowered as to make classes and other jobs useless. In my opinion, they did a very good job with the balance. I'm not saying it's perfect and doesn't need any fixes. They just need to be VERY careful.

I agree they need to be careful, which is why my suggestions were that they make Outmaneuver (an ability we already have) actually do something rather than the occasional lucky 9MP return on a block, and possibly change Spirits Within (2 minute recast) to give some MP rather than do more damage based on HP.

I don't want MP donated to me to make things super easy, but we should be compelled to use jobs in a party. On Ifrit the Bard was a little wary of having to give me Ballad, as he was afraid he'd have to get too close. This to me suggests there would be a lot of running around with potential danger depending on where you're running to.

I'm hoping to get a few more long duration fights under my belt with PLD, likely using meds and hoping to get a BRD to come along, and hopefully others who have done this can elaborate on whether its viable or not.

I just don't think using jobs should make things more tedious/difficult/dangerous for party play(in the case of the BRD having to run around to potentially dangerous spots to buff ppl).

Other things I saw was as the BLM's died they could not raise each other, but I think just 1 or 2 of them need to be on THM or you need a WHM paying attention to them. I don't consider those issues as they will hopefully get worked out as players get a little more experience with this. I do hope PLD will be this way, but to me, it's not looking so as GLA can survive better right now (even with a BRD). The only survival move is Hallowed Ground, which only lasts 15 seconds and only works for Physical Damage, so you don't gain much.

EDIT: you also mention FFXI. Bards there were easier to fit into alliances as you had 18 spots as opposed to 8, just saying.