The Problem with Paladin

[Phobos]

So far I haven't come across any "issues" while using PLD with regard to it's job performance - that is, a role that can take hits and keep threat. Yeah a couple abilities I would agree are a bit underwhelming (Cover and DV), but I'm guessing I just haven't been in a situation yet where using them really made a noticeable difference.

The thing with Jobs that you (and everyone else for that matter) need to keep in the back of your head is that they're meant for very specific purposes, and only really shine when used in a party-setting with other Jobs. BRD is the Job that is meant to provide support that classes were accustomed to providing their own support with through cross-classing other abilities such as, for example, Sanguine Rite for [selective] MP replenishment. BLMs besides magic damage provide crowd-controling techniques. And so on for the other Jobs.

Sometimes you need Jobs A, B, and D; whereas other times you'll need Jobs A, C, and E; etc. etc.- that is, you might have to play around with your party setup. Other times you'll need Job C of you use Job A (e.g., having a BRD when using a PLD tank) or it just won't work. If you don't have a BRD for your PLD tank on Ifrit, then perhaps either going GLA or using a WAR tank might be the better strategy instead.

(And, btw, BRDs can keep different songs up on different members of the party - they just have to reposition themselves to their songs only hit the players they want. That is, it's easy to keep Ballad of the Magi on the tank/mages while keeping another song o the ranged/melee DD)

Wtf is threat? Personally, I try to hold hate/enmity.

On a serious note, I don't know if you've attempted Ifrit or something similar on PLD (One long, drawn out fight where youre MP pool actually has a chance to get exhausted) but as I mentioned, I did not think this was an issue until I had a fight my MP actually got exhausted.

I do understand the whole using a BRD thing, but there are a few issues with that - the first being that a PLD now requires a BRD, and needs them to keep Ballad on them. In some situations this may mean either ignoring the rest of the party or giving everyone Ballad, or the BRD needing to run around to get everyone songs. It's not horrible but its a bit clunky.

I hate to bring up FFXI, particularly as I don't want too many of it's concepts adopted here, but for PLD there, MP was less of an issue for a few reasons:

2 Jobs could refresh, PLD also had auto-refresh and some gear that gave it available.
Block rate didn't suck horribly, so you would actually sometimes block a decent ammount of Damage.
It's much easier when you have an 18 man group to get a BRD or a RDM or both with your PLD

Just to bring more than one game for comparison, I also played DCUO for a bit, where tanks had a few options as well:
Multiple power refreshing jobs - there are as many healing classes as there are refreshers and tanks.
Everyone has an inherent power regeneration that while relatively minimal, is noticeable enough.

[Reaujien]

Wtf is threat? Personally, I try to hold hate/enmity.

*crickets* Um... okay

On a serious note, I don't know if you've attempted Ifrit or something similar on PLD (One long, drawn out fight where youre MP pool actually has a chance to get exhausted) but as I mentioned, I did not think this was an issue until I had a fight my MP actually got exhausted.

I haven't tried Ifrit on PLD yet, but on "something similar" yes I do believe I have. As for GLA, I've had my MP get exhausted before - easy enough to have a THM come by and SP > SR on me just before stops dashing around so as to get hit with a high damaging breath attack to provide the most MP back during SR's duration. So far, for both, running out of MP on either PLD or GLA have been very situation - both of which can be corrected (or made worse) by altering strategies.

I do understand the whole using a BRD thing, but there are a few issues with that - the first being that a PLD now requires a BRD, and needs them to keep Ballad on them.

How is this different than having it be required that GLA have Featherfoot and/or Sanguine Rite just to keep his/her MP up? The only difference I see in that is by not having those abilities you have to rely more on another party member to provide the support for you.

Hmm, good thing "long, drawn out fights" require party members to help win. *Solution found.*

In some situations this may mean either ignoring the rest of the party or giving everyone Ballad, or the BRD needing to run around to get everyone songs. It's not horrible but its a bit clunky.

BRDs don't need to ignore anyone in the party, especially with regards to putting up songs. Just like a THM can find the right moment to put up SR on the GLA in an Ifrit fight, so too can a BRD find the right opportunity to put up a 3 min (or is it more than 3min?) song on one party member (or a select group of party members), and then go back and put up a song for the 'other' party member(s). And, if "need[ing] to run around to get everyone songs" (which, you know, is what BRDs do) is clunky, then I guess fighting Ifrit is just as clunky because it requires you to, you know, run around and avoid ground mechanics.

I hate to bring up FFXI, particularly as I don't want too many of it's concepts adopted here, but for PLD there, MP was less of an issue for a few reasons:

2 Jobs could refresh, PLD also had auto-refresh and some gear that gave it available.
Block rate didn't suck horribly, so you would actually sometimes block a decent ammount of Damage.
It's much easier when you have an 18 man group to get a BRD or a RDM or both with your PLD

I actually like it when ppl bring up FFXI. Most seem to think that there's not "Final Fantasy" in FFXIV, and that it's awakens the anti-christ for mentioning a previous installment of a FF game when, you know, talking about a current/new FF game (because FF games never have anything similar/familiar in them... never). Anyway, I digressed...

You're absolutely right about having multiple ways PLDs could replenish MP in XI (pre-abbyssea, or h/e it's spelled. I say that because I stopped during WotG). But, even with having all that MP available to use you still could hold a lot of threat by relying on other members of your party for threat: THF, or anyone that /THF. That alone I would argue could give PLDs in XI the majority of their threat; however, it just all depended on the pt setup and situation.

Just to bring more than one game for comparison, I also played DCUO for a bit, where tanks had a few options as well:
Multiple power refreshing jobs - there are as many healing classes as there are refreshers and tanks.
Everyone has an inherent power regeneration that while relatively minimal, is noticeable enough.

Yeah... Hmmm, games like DCUO, WoW, Rift, etc., where every class had their own way to be self-sufficient, I find really hard to try and compare to FF games only because historically FF games have centered around strategic, tactical battles that involved micro-managing party members to perform key roles in order to win the battle. And I'm not suggesting that the battles in those games didn't involve any sort of strategy, it's just they were completely different (again, imo) then the strategies used to win fights in, say, FFIV and FFT, etc. Anyone, the thick of it is, every MMO will have their own class-structure to it, and to say stuff like, "I played this one game, and so this other game should have it simply by virtue of the other game having it" is purely subjective.


All in all bro, FFXIV allows you to play GLA or PLD whenever you want, and it sounds like you already have your mind set on GLA. Whatever you do, hope you have fun doing it because after all it's a video game, and we all choose to play it based on what it offers us. XD