The Problem with Paladin

[Nexxus]

SE needs to make the "shield" OP.

I'd rather have more HP than better shield block rate. actually, to have over 3.7k~ HP you need stuff with materia (give up all AF), and food.

I've only tried the coincutter as pld, 100T Swing is easily avoidable, there's np in it, and just in case, i have Aegis Boon that will block it.

But the other 100T... where a WAR will take it easily without to worry about being killed, will mostly one shot a PLD (maybe not a skilled one).

HP was my only issue, full AF + jewels 3200 HP. WAR full AF + jewels 4200 HP, even if he can't mitigate as well as pld the damages, an healer will always overheal the tank, so the mitigation is a bit useless (even if it's helpfull), only HP count there.

I also play as mnk, and i'd rather have a war in my party because i can give him my hate with my howling fist (1400~ dmg enmity) and be cool with my own hate all the fight long.

I found out my block rate still pretty decent on coincutter (with the 3 skills that enhance it), and mp is pretty useless, i can't cure myself during this fight, i have to run often to avoid TPmove...

So, if i had something to ask to Square Enix it would be: "Put HP+ stats on AF instead of MP" and "enhance base HP of paladin".

[Daniel_Fury]

I'd rather have more HP than better shield block rate. actually, to have over 3.7k~ HP you need stuff with materia (give up all AF), and food.

Not true. I wear the AF top, Gloves, and Crown and still have over 4k hp in a party so HP isn't a problem for me. However, chuck the gears on the warrior and get close to 4.9k hp. 4k is easily enough to tank the bosses with PLD no worries though. (As long as you dodge 100 Tonze Swing.)

The 100 tonze swipe is still easily avoidable, run between his legs and take no damage. If you make a mistake, like animation lock and are going to be hit, whm follow up Cura and PLD use Holy Succor to replenish HP as if it was a means of defence.

[Nexxus]

Equipment with 3~5x materia HP+ ? I goes up to 3700~ HP with a full cobalt set with 1x Materia HP on each without food and full HP jewels too.

If it's without materia, gimme your secret, that the only thing i miss to be accepted as tank in my shell (even if they let me do it, as i have not much experience, i get killed because of 100T Swipe, latency and animation lock mostly) And if i keep running, i can't manage well my enmity.

[Daniel_Fury]

Equipment with 3~5x materia HP+ ? I goes up to 3700~ HP with a full cobalt set with 1x Materia HP on each without food and full HP jewels too.

If it's without materia, gimme your secret, that the only thing i miss to be accepted as tank in my shell (even if they let me do it, as i have not much experience, i get killed because of 100T Swipe, latency and animation lock mostly) And if i keep running, i can't manage well my enmity.

Nothing impressive. Dual meld Bloodthirst III on chest, belt, pants and boots. +1 Amber Rings, Stonewall Choker, that +50hp braclet, Deviled Eggs for food. So only 4 pieces of equips with 2x Tier 3 HP materia's.

Yeah, alot of people say latency plays a part in coin counter. I live in New Zealand and don't see any big latency issues (though I would expect to.)

Do you filter chat log so you can react the second you see the skill come up?

[Nexxus]

Yes, t'chat log is set to see the TPmove, and i'm playing with the french client, that help me even better to discern the skill as:

100T Swing = Swing de 100 Tonnes
100T Swipe = Fauche de 100 Tonnes


I still think AF would be better if they had HP instead of MP, as i noticed MP isn't much an issue for PLD.

[Daniel_Fury]

Yes, t'chat log is set to see the TPmove, and i'm playing with the french client, that help me even better to discern the skill as:

100T Swing = Swing de 100 Tonnes
100T Swipe = Fauche de 100 Tonnes


I still think AF would be better if they had HP instead of MP, as i noticed MP isn't much an issue for PLD.

I guess all I can say is practice makes perfect

I agree that HP would be better for Paladin survivability, but for some reason, I like the MP. I don't even know why lol.

[Nexxus]

Yes Practice is making sense =P i already think about going behind him to avoid the Swipe, but everyone is standing behind him already (a bit far away tho), if i move him by going on his back, and immediately does another 100T, Swipe will probably kill the groups, Swing they still can run away from the AoE.

The difference with a War is, he don't have to run from a Swipe.

[Daniel_Fury]

Yes Practice is making sense =P i already think about going behind him to avoid the Swipe, but everyone is standing behind him already (a bit far away tho), if i move him by going on his back, and immediately does another 100T, Swipe will probably kill the groups, Swing they still can run away from the AoE.

The difference with a War is, he don't have to run from a Swipe.

I dodge it with WAR anyway, but the HP is nice incase I make a mistake.

PLD doesn't have to dodge it with 3.7khp.

Save Sentinel for first swipe, Aegis Boon for the next one and then Divine Veil and counter the damage with Holy Succor as a last resort if your Sentinel or Aegis Boon aren't back up by the time he uses another one.

I use Holy Succor when I see the attack coming and I time it so it "resists" the damage with a Heal Vs Damage. The problem with that however is that it can be interrupted on occasion, which is why I use it as a last resort.

[TirionCrey]

Yeah, alot of people say latency plays a part in coin counter. I live in New Zealand and don't see any big latency issues (though I would expect to.)

Why would you expect any latency issues? New Zealand is like...as close to Japan as you can get as a not asian based person...same for Australia...to expect latency issues at that place is just...

PS: Why would you tank on PLD with that gear, when WAR does the same with more enmity generation?

[SionDurant]

This post by Kiara I think sums up some of the changes that should be made to PLD. Many of these were discussed in the thread but I think Kiara sums them up best and adds to them nicely:

Hello,

I haven't seen any discussions post-update here about the Paladin job (which I am loving right now), so I figured I'd start one with my opinions. I'm hoping others can bring in their opinions/strategies as well; in order to help others figure out the job or identify the problems.

Firstly, just to lay out some things I think work perfectly for Paladin:

1. Spirits within is amazing.
2. Coupled with a White Mage, our survivability is great
3. Cover is nice, as is hallowed ground (though admittedly they are a tad underwhelming and I don't use them all that much)
4. Divine Veil and Holy Succor are great boosts to the job
5. The AF is just awesome looking and has nice stats to it

All that being said, the problem I have with Paladin is this:

I noticed this issue first in a spiritbond party, and thought nothing much of it because it was happening infrequently enough. It was not until I attempted an Ifrit that I noticed the severity of this problem.

Paladin has no reliable method to recover MP. As I said, at first I thought this was fine - I was running out of MP at a reasonable pace which didn't seem to cause any issues for me. When attempting Ifrit, however, when I ran out of MP, I had no way of curing myself, and no way of getting MP back (I realize now some ether's are in order, which I will keep on hand for this exact situation.)

What I'm trying to say, though, is that as it stands right now Paladin is not nearly useful as Gladiator even in a full party situation, unless one of a few things is the case:

1. You have a Bard with you, and they can maintain Ballad (may or may not be the ideal song)
2. The fight will not last long enough for your MP pool to become an issue.
3. You have enough WHM's to make up for your loss of self-healing.

Our group got a Bard after the first attempt, though he was a little weary of having to keep Ballad on me, and I did not get a chance to test it out as I left before the party filled back up.

The problem is that Gladiator has the following abilities accessible over Paladin:

1. Second Wind
2. Featherfoot
3. Sanguine Rite

The first one is a self-heal that requires no MP (and now no TP, making it even more useful). The second two offer MP recovery for more cure usage. While Paladin does get a nice hefty cure, it can only use it a handful of times before it runs out of MP. A Gladiator has a lot more longevity to it, as the abilities Paladin gains do not cover what it loses. Cover, Divine Veil, Spirits Within, Holy Succor, Hallowed Ground - none of these are truly Necessities, just nice boosts (Spirits Within is nice damage, Divine Veil is somewhat redundant and clunky to use, etc.)

I don't mean to complain, but I just find it odd that Gladiator has more survivability than Paladin, and has roughly the same enmity generation tools (aside from Spirits Within every 1:30 or whatever the recast is, and Holy Succor the few times you can use it). I understand that offering too much MP recovery would make things too easy, but Paladin should get some MP recovery so that being on it over Gladiator is not a detriment. I think this could be done in one or two ways:

1. Enhance/Fix Outmaneuver - I've only ever seen this return single digit MP on the rare occasion I block with it up. Both the rate of block and the MP return should be boosted so that this is not relatively useless. (do this regardless, this ability is seriously garbage right now)
2. Change Spirits Within's combo bonus to return MP instead of do more damage based on HP - While I enjoy the damage this gives, it does not outweigh the MP recovery Gladiator has, and would be a good place for an MP recovery tool due to it's recast being somewhat long, but not too long.
3. Actually make the difference between GLA and PLD defense/attack change meaningful. Perhaps even a slight accuracy loss/ block rate gain would be in order.

Apologies for the massive post, but I had a lot of thoughts I wanted to get out there. Eager to hear other Paladin's experiences and thoughts - particulary in regards to this problem (is it just me?, any suggestions?, is it fine to essentially require BRD when using PLD?).

Also, any other commentaries on Paladin Vs Gladiator are welcome!

I put a thread about this on battle mechanics to get the word out there too, please check it out, details some changes I think will help us without killing the intent of the class.

See the thread below titled Tanking Adjustments PLD/WAR

EDIT: Fixed broken link

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...tments-PLD-WAR