The Problem with Paladin

[Evaddaragon]

Alerith you can't just go by help text. Aegis Boon blocks an incoming attack and restores HP in proportion to damage taken, except you don't take any damage on the hit AB procs on. If we want all text to be literal it would have to say "restores HP in proportion to damage mitigated".

This has nothing to do with whether I agree with you or not.

If Aegis Boon works like that, chances are Divine Veil will, too... But once again, I'm only making assumptions, I'll have to test it.

[Treach]

Really don't see PLD getting permanent aegis boon blocks minus the heal for 20 seconds every 60 seconds.

[Alerith]

Really don't see PLD getting permanent aegis boon blocks minus the heal for 20 seconds every 60 seconds.

It certainly will not. Aegis Boon specifies that you get a return in HP. Divine Veil simply says "Blocks" which means it should function that you have a 100% block rate for 20 seconds.

This does NOT mean you will be taking zero damage or getting any kind of HP/MP return, unless you also use Outmaneuver.

[Evaddaragon]

Really don't see PLD getting permanent aegis boon blocks minus the heal for 20 seconds every 60 seconds.

But why not ? Has someone tested it yet ? Wait, no we didn't. We're still on maintenance.

Let's say it does. Would you finally think PLD has some uses ? It would mean PLD takes 33% less physical damage than a WAR tank. Why wouldn't it be possible ? No one wants to believe SE might have done something right ? I'll concede it's also possible they didn't, but would people simply wait to test the new feature before saying it works or not ? I keep repeating myself here because NO ONE is actually answering that argument.

Would allowing the PLD take 33% less physical damage than WAR be overpowering ? Let me remind you they have a lot less HP and deal a lot less damage. And if you're worried that WAR will do more enmity because of damage, let's be reminded PLD will now have TWO combos to build enmity, one that's guaranteed to go every 60 seconds because Spirits Within now has the same recast then Aegis Boon. Aegis Boon + Phalanx + Bloodbath + Spirits Within = Great single enmity increase AND HP regen, which (gasp !) is pretty much what makes Rampage + the Steel Cyclone combo so awesome in the first place. The WAR option might still be better for multiple targets, but on bosses, they'll pretty much be equal, the PLD might even get the upper edge since the block will be guaranteed whereas the crit from WAR won't.

Sure, the Steel Cyclone combo can be used faster, but you also have the Fast Blade + Flat Blade combo to compensate for enmity spike. If Divine Veil works like I think it could, you won't need to HP regen as much as the WAR will.

Last, and not least, I've seen you comment on the other thread in general discussion about how the benefits that we see are nothing but "fanboy based opinions". Please. I also have a 50 WAR, and I love it very much. Just because we don't seem to agree with you in no way means we are fanboys towards the PLD job.

Hence why I don't bother repeating myself in the other thread. I see no need in posting the same things twice. ^^

[Treach]

MFW

[PiedPiper]

MFW

This. So much this to most of what is said about the pld class. Funniest thing I've seen all day.


Ps, as Treach and a few others are laboriously trying to point out, it doesn't do much good to be immune to physical damage a third of the time if A) most of the damage isn't physical anyway and B) you still aren't taking on pld cus your threat still sucks. B is based mostly on the fact that there is little confidence that the spiritswithin change will magically make up the massive gap between pld and war, which I think is a rather reasonable assumption. Then again, Spirits within could hit for over 9000 every 60 seconds now and generate +800% threat, and then it'd be totally enough.

[Alerith]

This. So much this to most of what is said about the pld class. Funniest thing I've seen all day.


Ps, as Treach and a few others are laboriously trying to point out, it doesn't do much good to be immune to physical damage a third of the time if A) most of the damage isn't physical anyway and B) you still aren't taking on pld cus your threat still sucks. B is based mostly on the fact that there is little confidence that the spiritswithin change will magically make up the massive gap between pld and war, which I think is a rather reasonable assumption. Then again, Spirits within could hit for over 9000 every 60 seconds now and generate +800% threat, and then it'd be totally enough.

PLD hate control doesn't suck. WAR just currently does it better. I've never had hate issues as PLD.

[PiedPiper]

PLD hate control doesn't suck. WAR just currently does it better. I've never had hate issues as PLD.

Go to page 28 of this thread, read that. Then you'll know why "War does it better" places PLD at not only a disadvantage, but actually hinders the group. The only thing most tanks would realize as a condition where their hat control would suck would be if they were losing threat to healers. As it is, healers can't slow down too much to manage their hate while DDs can. Even cure bombing, however, just doesn't generate that much threat. You'd have to be a truly terrible tank--pld, gld, war, or mrd--to actually lose threat to a healer. Most tanks don't realize how much DDs are holding back to prevent themselves from pulling threat. More tank hate = more dd from the group = faster kills = more loot. Also, with the conditions for speed runs such as they are, warrior has a huge advantage there since "it jsut does it better" means it allows for higher group dps. As I and others have said before, its not enough to "hold hate" and that line of thinking continues to prove that you've missed the point about tanking in endgame. Its not about "holding hate" its about "building more hate." DDs that are worth their salt will never pull because they just stop hitting buttons till the scary red color goes away. The fact that you aren't losing threat doesn't mean that you are a good tank, it just means your DDs don't absolutely suck.

[Alerith]

Hmmmm, my DD's have never had to hold back, and I've never lost the blinking red to them. Two of them being warriors.

Flash, Provoke, War Drum, the Fast Blade/Flat Blade hate combo, Rampart, and now Spirit's Within, is all you need to maintain solid control while tanking.

As long as you are constantly running your rotation, you won't lose hate to a DD that isn't holding back.

So a WAR can do it's damage and still a PLD can tank. Imagine that.

EDIT: Mobs with hate reset are obviously exempt here.

[Peptaru]

They cut recast in half, but didn't cut the duration in half. This extends its active duration over the course of a fight. It could have been phrased better. Now it can be active 33% of the time instead of 25% of the time, and the boost to block (i pray) will be a blessing.