The Problem with Paladin

[elreed]

Please dont change the warrior, dont nerf jobs, make them better...you should already know that we dont like being nerf.

[Kraggy]

Please dont change the warrior, dont nerf jobs, make them better...you should already know that we dont like being nerf.

Because the way to balance a game is never nerf, always buff, until you reach the point where all jobs/classes are gods and mobs have to be similarly buffed to compete?

It's called 'stat inflation' and destroys a game's ability to challenge. Yes, being nerfed is annoying, but only those too blind to see the wider picture whine about it.

[Phobos]

Because the way to balance a game is never nerf, always buff, until you reach the point where all jobs/classes are gods and mobs have to be similarly buffed to compete?

It's called 'stat inflation' and destroys a game's ability to challenge. Yes, being nerfed is annoying, but only those too blind to see the wider picture whine about it.

While you're right here, and I don't think everyone has my exact point of view on this - I feel as we shouldn't be asking "never nerf anything" and just, "don't get rid of the 1 working tank just because you think you fixed pld." I'm of the opinion that they should buff before thinking about nerfing. After balancing jobs for the most part, simply then make other changes to finish perfecting the balance.

Nerfing has it's place - I just don't feel it's place is here quite yet. I don't want to have PLD half working, and WAR nerfed to the point where it is half working as well. I don't think anyone wants that right now.

[Madruk]

Besides the problem of paladin abilities being trash for the most part, there's the glaring issue of there actually having content needing one. None of these fights require any sort of heavy tanking, so regardless of paladins being buffed, people will still take warriors because of the way dungeons are designed. With a 1 hour time limit and the current belief that you can only acquire body pieces via a 5 chest speed run, people are still going to take the faster group setup.

[Phobos]

Nice to see we're getting some adjustments.

Just to comment about the whole enhancing outmaneuver would help GLA as well - I see what you mean, but I guess the problem is that PLD would tend to rely on it more as we lose featherfoot and other abilities to both recover MP and mitigate damage. This loss of abilities just makes outmaneuver's uselessness even more apparent than it was on GLA.

While I'm sure ability changes will do a great deal to help, I can almost guarantee WAR will remain to be the best tank until we get some VIT, Defense, and Blocking changes. Even then, the first two would help WAR as well, so in reality the biggest change that needs to happen to make PLD even moderately useful, is a change in blocking calculations for higher level mobs (the only things where it actually matters).

[Zangetsu]

Be nice if they gave us guard back but slightly different.

Guard: hide behind your shield but lose the ability to attack or perform actions. % blocked varies with STR. Effect fades upon reuse. Recast :00.

This could be usefull for tanking multiple enemies or for enemies that hit extremely hard. You wouldn't use it in a general situation but it would make PLD feel more specialized in the art of the shield. Make us feel like we have more control over the damage we take. You can gain some emnity then hide behind your shield then when you feel emnity may shift you can drop shield and gain more emnity.

Better shield proc rate would be great as another option too.

[leomike35]

Be nice if they gave us guard back but slightly different.

Guard: hide behind your shield but lose the ability to attack or perform actions. % blocked varies with STR. Effect fades upon reuse. Recast :00.

This could be usefull for tanking multiple enemies or for enemies that hit extremely hard. You wouldn't use it in a general situation but it would make PLD feel more specialized in the art of the shield. Make us feel like we have more control over the damage we take. You can gain some emnity then hide behind your shield then when you feel emnity may shift you can drop shield and gain more emnity.

Better shield proc rate would be great as another option too.

I love the guard idea we should be able to hide behind shield and cut dmg in half. Ifrit would be so mad at us. Also being able to do that alone would greatly buff outmanuever and aegis boon due to not needing shield to proc it would be guaranteed. Just wouldnt be able to use phalanx.

[Andrien]

Be nice if they gave us guard back but slightly different.

Guard: hide behind your shield but lose the ability to attack or perform actions. % blocked varies with STR. Effect fades upon reuse. Recast :00.

This could be usefull for tanking multiple enemies or for enemies that hit extremely hard. You wouldn't use it in a general situation but it would make PLD feel more specialized in the art of the shield. Make us feel like we have more control over the damage we take. You can gain some emnity then hide behind your shield then when you feel emnity may shift you can drop shield and gain more emnity.

Better shield proc rate would be great as another option too.

I agree they should bring Guard back. This time make it better by adding new actions that is available when guard is active? lower movement speed and attack power is a fair price for higher dmg mitigation.

[Cichy]

WAR the way it is made the class fun again. If they nerf it that's weak

[zergasaur]

Just my two cents, but the PLD is FAIL. Horrible compared to the GLA. Why? Let me explain.

1. PLD has Holy Succor but loses 2nd Wind - Yes it can heal other people but has casting time. Now if you know what a TANK does, TANKS gets hit....alot. Which means many, many interrupted heals. Not forgetting to mention you need stand still now too. >< This skill is practically useless in fights if you are tanking. If you were to use this skil las an off tank, sure cover and this will be awesome. But PLD dmg is not good and its much better to have a WHM in its place.

2. Loss of featherfoot which is a 2nd Aegis Boon in ways that regens a little MP. This skill is far better than Hollowed Ground.

3. Hollowed Ground is good but not very useful because it has a short duration, long Cooldown and only blocks physical. So using this is only useful on endgame content, but all endgame content do an array of physical and non-physical attacks. So many times the hollowed ground only block 1 to 2 attacks. Featherfoot accomplishes this very same thing but you can use it continally throughout the fight!

4. PLD only tank with AE taunts with no AE attacks or high dmg attacks to retain hate. Basically how its designed now, PLD need to continually AE taunt over and over to keep hate on group mobs. But at the same time WHM, BLM, WARRIOR are gaining more hate through, heals, AE spells, or attacks. Which almost always results in mobs jumping off of PLD.

5. Low HP: PLD have ~3000hp at r50. Warrior has ~3800 HP. Paladins dont really have more Def that Warrior. Whats the justification of 800 less HP?

Bottom line, I feel the PLD is a nerf and not an improvement over GLA. Only thing I see PLD has over GLA is the ability to wear that insane Heavy Darklight Armor and that little nifty aura that heals AE. But even that should be made a constant thing. To make PLD more playable, I think the following changes is necessary:

1) a low dmg enmity building ae attack/combo
2) Make Holy Succor a skill not spell or if you must keep the cast time, just make it non interuptable
3) 800 more life.
4) something to replace featherfoot .... for GLA, feather foot and Aegis Boon was my most valued skills as a tank. Hollowed Ground, does not compare to feather foot. Throughout a fight, I value featherfoot wayyyy more than hollowed ground.