The Problem with Paladin

[Treach]

Paladin needs more defense and HP. You have ways of getting mp back through assist of other jobs like ballads, sanguine right and also outmanuever. But when I have to stack HP gear to hit 4k hp and a war already has it and can focus on DD/enmity gear it makes it much easier for the war to tank anything right now in the game. Also I think blocks need a revamp right now, block rate is fine but the dmg you take from it is pretty poor.

Block rate is not fine, it is extremely bad on bosses, aegis boon procs do not count towards actual procs btw. Damage taken from blocks does need to be fixed also.

[Vanguard319]

Personally, I've had few problems with paladin, my advice as far as block rate is to go with a smaller shield. (ul'dahn hoplon and Lominsan lantern shield both have excellent block rates and decent enough defense for tank use) Kites and Scutums may absorb a ton of damage, but they also are heavy and have low block rates. It was like that in XI too.

As far as recovering MP goes, I think that was the intent, so that people would actually make use of items more frequently instead of just relying on thier skills.

[Takinagi]

Block rate is not fine, it is extremely bad on bosses, aegis boon procs do not count towards actual procs btw. Damage taken from blocks does need to be fixed also.

Maybe you should stop wearing full AF and put on some more dex/block rate. I parry for way less damage on War then I block with a shield on Pld. I would show the my parse results but I don't have any saved.

[LicontAshontear]

Maybe you should stop wearing full AF and put on some more dex/block rate. I parry for way less damage on War then I block with a shield on Pld. I would show the my parse results but I don't have any saved.

even with full sentinel (the only block rate+ gear in the game) and the Ul'dahn hoplon my block rate is pathetic. Blocking needs to get fixed. Autoblock nerfed it down to the point where it was completely useless and people just tanked without a shield. Aegis Boon is a step in the right direction, but 1 block every so often is NOT blocking. You need to actually block, and often, paladin has a shield, its time SE let us actually use it.

[Treach]

Maybe you should stop wearing full AF and put on some more dex/block rate. I parry for way less damage on War then I block with a shield on Pld. I would show the my parse results but I don't have any saved.

Another "I block tons lulz" poster with no proof, awesome. Don't know how many posts I've made complaining about block rate on things that matter, like pretty much all boss level mobs around 57-58. Don't even know why'd you try and validate this bullshit claim when practically EVERYONE ELSE has been complaining about never blocking.

If you happen to be one of those people who think endgame is xp parties on natalan/zharak on weak level 50 mobs, then sure block rate is fine. Not like a naked CNJ couldn't tank those mobs.

At least you understand PLD AF is horrible, props for that.

[Ragz]

Another "I block tons lulz" poster with no proof, awesome. Don't know how many posts I've made complaining about block rate on things that matter, like pretty much all boss level mobs around 57-58. Don't even know why'd you try and validate this bullshit claim when practically EVERYONE ELSE has been complaining about never blocking.

If you happen to be one of those people who think endgame is xp parties on natalan/zharak on weak level 50 mobs, then sure block rate is fine. Not like a naked CNJ couldn't tank those mobs.

At least you understand PLD AF is horrible, props for that.

Eh, I think he treats Chimera as exp mob...

(Taki, since I'm nice to you, how to get last chest? /wink /wink)

[Treach]

Bladed Lantern Shield LV50 Drubber


Vintage Kite Shield LV50 Drubber

No outmanuever or aegis boon, both tests I just stood there and got beat on for an hour straight. BLS has almost half the stats of VKS and yet suffers so little, practically saying shield stats do not matter against level 50 mobs, even more proving as dLV goes up stats need HUGE boosts to catch up just like defense, mEVA, magic crit and physical crit potency.

Going to assume block rate from dex ratio is either:
For every 3 dex you get 2 block rate (like atk:str and def:vit theories)
For every 5 dex you get 1 block rate (like healing magic from mnd and etc)

You see how much those shields matter right? Why would you assume stacking dex and the minor block rate we can get will have any real effect?

Also for fun, this is some the last ifrits I've done (1.20)

No aegis boon, BUT I used outmanuever ON CD and had 21 dex from rings and 16+ dex from whatever archer hands I had, can' remember which item but it doesn't matter. EDIT was wearing Vintage Kite Shield also.

Forgot to see how many of the actual attacks he made that you can block, which is ONLY the melee swings, but it's roughly 2 auto attacks for 1 TP attack (but tank doesn't get hit by cracks/jump), so lets assume 320ish auto attacks and 100ish TP attacks for roughly a 1% block rate this is probably close to the floor value which is probably 0% just like mEVA.

The entire formula behind block rate is broken to the point it is extremely ineffective against bosses, even if what I explained is not 100% correct it should be close or similar to other formulas people way smarter then me have discovered.

[Treach]

Eh, I think he treats Chimera as exp mob...

(Taki, since I'm nice to you, how to get last chest? /wink /wink)

Hey now, if he can assume I'm a full AF idiot then I can assume he is a endgame xp party person. Only fair.

[Phobos]

Bladed Lantern Shield LV50 Drubber


Vintage Kite Shield LV50 Drubber

No outmanuever or aegis boon, both tests I just stood there and got beat on for an hour straight. BLS has almost half the stats of VKS and yet suffers so little, practically saying shield stats do not matter against level 50 mobs, even more proving as dLV goes up stats need HUGE boosts to catch up just like defense, mEVA, magic crit and physical crit potency.

Going to assume block rate from dex ratio is either:
For every 3 dex you get 2 block rate (like atk:str and def:vit theories)
For every 5 dex you get 1 block rate (like healing magic from mnd and etc)

You see how much those shields matter right? Why would you assume stacking dex and the minor block rate we can get will have any real effect?

Also for fun, this is some the last ifrits I've done (1.20)

No aegis boon, BUT I used outmanuever ON CD and had 21 dex from rings and 16+ dex from whatever archer hands I had, can' remember which item but it doesn't matter. EDIT was wearing Vintage Kite Shield also.

Forgot to see how many of the actual attacks he made that you can block, which is ONLY the melee swings, but it's roughly 2 auto attacks for 1 TP attack (but tank doesn't get hit by cracks/jump), so lets assume 320ish auto attacks and 100ish TP attacks for roughly a 1% block rate this is probably close to the floor value which is probably 0% just like mEVA.

The entire formula behind block rate is broken to the point it is extremely ineffective against bosses, even if what I explained is not 100% correct it should be close or similar to other formulas people way smarter then me have discovered.

Nice data - I was actually going to start collecting some myself but I'm glad someone else has already.

On a side-note, I've kind of abandoned this thread as it's devolved. The last few pages (Kiara's post was probably the last truly on-topic post that sparked some nice discussion aside from yours) have been mostly repeats of previous pages (things like just use a BRD, ignoring the concept that GLA can also use a BRD, etc) and now this latest; people actually trying to claim block rate is acceptable here.

Not to mention, the assertion that smaller "high block rate lower damage reduction" shields are what people should be using - this was not the case in FFXI, and I would find it hard to beleive any other game wants people using dinky shields that are at best a glorified arm-guard. The extra damage reduction on larger shields should outweigh the more consistant block-rate of smaller shields. Otherwise, people wouldn't use larger shields.

I'd be curious to see some data of like, 10x Ifrit without Outmaneuver, and 10x Ifrit with using Outmaneuver every time it comes back up. My guess would be a 0.1~0.2% increase in block rate. I swear, I blocked more often on RDM in FFXI.

[Treach]

Yeah, I know what you mean. Can't seem to ignore such posts though, just drives me insane.