Ran'jit's strength makes no sense

[QT_Melon]

Watching someone you care about dying over and over can do things to you.
Especially since there was that addage about insanity repeating the same thing but expecting different results.

[Donnicton]

Ran'Jit shouldn't have even been in the game. His connection to the story was threadbare and there was no explanation for how deus ex broken he was outside of "he's been fighting a long time".

Honestly, they should have just built up the two Jongleur girls instead. They were proper creepy from the outset, fitting the theme of the expansion as the player was introduced to it. Make them an escalating annoyance throughout the story culminating in a big body horror moment where they turn into some kind of insane Sin Eater amalgam.

Basically they should have been the Zorn and Thorn of Shadowbringers.

[Nalien]

Ran'Jit shouldn't have even been in the game.

I disagree. Granted, I think his character was handled somewhat poorly, but it's fairly clear that he was meant to mirror Thancred with the whole father figure arc. Really don't see how the two jesters as a Zorn/Thorn reference could achieve that in the slightest.

What Ran'jit really needed was some Echo flashbacks to him interacting with past Minfilias, so we could actually get a sense of how long he has been fighting, and watch that erode him. I also think his relationship with Ryne should have been... Better? At the very least she should have been able to mourn his passing, think Garnet/Brahne (although perhaps the IX character he should most closely have resembled is Beatrix). He did, after all, want to bring her back so she didn't have to fight and die, there's some amount of good intention in that... All we saw of him though, painted a picture of more of an abusive father figure... Really hard to feel any empathy for him when the only shred of emotion or character he ever showed was right as he died, I think they should have shown that side of him a whole lot more. The whole point of his character was that he raised these children to die fighting Sin Eaters, yet we never saw that, we're only told it. If we were shown it more often I think he'd have been a much better character. Here's hoping the Anniversary Tales can shed a bit more light on that, though it's still a shame to have that handled in a short story rather than seeing it in game where it really should have been...

[Donnicton]

Oh my no, I don't at all share the opinion that if you Fordola/Yotsuyu in minor underbaddies who do nothing but commit petty acts of one-dimensional evil throughout the expansion to drive the good guys' motivation and then force-feed us some cutscenes near the end about how their horrible past drove their horrible actions up to this point, it does enough to salvage them as a character, much less a sympathetic villain.

To make him work in a manner that makes the player care about him you'd have to rewrite the entire character, you'd have to make him more interesting than irritating the player with some Diet Zenos scripted losses and a couple of Echo drops. He'd need to be more involved with the story from the outset - he needs a proper introduction, a proper arc and a proper execution(so to speak). He doesn't need to be written as well as a second Emet-Selch, but he at least needs to be as interesting as the beast tribes. As Ysayle. Even Edda. God, for Scholars even the Tonberries became quite interesting. And I'm not really confident that the kind of rewriting that would be needed to make him to work just to force some kind of Bizarro-Thancred wouldn't also come at the detriment to the rest of the story, considering how well the rest of the story works without him and how unaffected it is with him.

Sometimes a Grynewaht is just a Grynewaht, and his role in the story I think would not have seen any sort of great vacuum having instead been filled by that kind of character - some annoying little flunkie gofer sycophant of a petty and childish villain like Vauthry, who generally just irritates you for a while and then he's gone and you're glad he's gone - like the nameless captain who was with Ran'jit in the greatwoods.

[Nalien]

Oh my no, I don't at all share the opinion that if you Fordola/Yotsuyu in minor underbaddies who do nothing but commit petty acts of one-dimensional evil throughout the expansion to drive the good guys' motivation and then force-feed us some cutscenes near the end about how their horrible past drove their horrible actions up to this point, it does enough to salvage them as a character, much less a sympathetic villain.

I'm not at all saying that's what they should do, just that's all they can do at this point... Some post-MSQ flash backs and the Anniversary Tales are the only possible way for them to flesh him out at this point, since he is already dead.

I disagree that his character needs a complete rewrite, his character was actually perfectly fine IMO. The issue is just they pretty much never showed it, the entire Minfilia/Ryne Thancred/Ran'jit arc was fairly rushed IMO, and I think Ran'jit came out the worst of it. His character was, and should have been shown as, a father figure for Ryne. Instead he is just the angry guy that's chasing after us, who comes off as solely abusive more than anything else. Pepper in a couple Echo flashbacks to actually show us his character, maybe give him a few solid interactions with Ryne to flesh out their relationship. Done, the actual character he is said to have is now shown. Instead the only window into any of that we actually see is his dying line, which I agree, is an absolutely terrible way to have handled things. That's the issue with Ran'jit in a nutshell, we're told things about him, and shown very little of it. All we're consistently shown is that he is a competent general, everything else we're only told... It needed to be shown, and that's the problem with him.

It's far too late for them to shoehorn that kind of stuff into the MSQ though, so I see little point in laboring the point. Best we can hope for is some post-story that might flesh him out a bit, which yes is a flawed way to handle things, but I didn't say it was a good way to handle it, did I? I simply said it's the best we can hope for. I agree that his character was poorly handled in the MSQ, but to say his character could be completely removed? No, I disagree with that. Like him or not, he was central to Rynes character arc and development. You can't just remove a character like that and replace him with a couple of nameless jesters... Wouldn't even make sense to have those two following us around the world... Eulmore needed a general, and it makes perfect sense for that general to also have be the "father" who raises Minfilias. It's a shame the MSQ focused solely on him being the big-bad leader of Eulmores army, when his relationship to the Minfilias and Ryne had far more potential. Only thing they can do to rectify that now is (hopefully) an Anniversary Tale.

[Theodric]

I wonder how much of the complaints about Ran'jit and similar characters stem from some people being bitter that their glassy eyed waifu characters are actually given a run for their money and can't just cut through anything and everything put before them? I found him to be a pretty interesting character - a former hero with a tragic past broken by the bleak fate of the world.

It's particularly hilarious when those selfsame posters are absolutely fine with new protagonists being able to perform feats of great strength the moment that they appear!

Sure, more information about Ran'jit would be appreciated, though it isn't a problem for him to be powerful enough to give the Warrior of Light and Scions a hard time. The story would be very boring if it was just a power fantasy along the veins as some here wish it to be!

[Lauront]

I attributed his "strength" to his unpredictable fighting style. TBH, you were whisked away from that first fight. His fighting style probably took some getting used to but once you knew how to deal with it, you overcame him. That he could pose a challenge for someone like Thancred is only understandable.

Also, some individuals on the First do possess the Echo - even a fractured soul with the Echo could prove a challenge, even if slight in the grand scheme of things. Maybe that is part of it. So that's what I make of it. I don't think they're really suggesting he's that mighty. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That said, they do have to leave some room for characters outside of Primals, Ascian Overlords, Lightwardens, Voidsent royals, genetically engineered Purebloods and the like to pose a challenge, else it becomes rather one note.

I wonder how much of the complaints about Ran'jit and similar characters stem from some people being bitter that their glassy eyed waifu characters are actually given a run for their money and can't just cut through anything and everything put before them? I found him to be a pretty interesting character - a former hero with a tragic past broken by the bleak fate of the world.

It's particularly hilarious when those selfsame posters are absolutely fine with new protagonists being able to perform feats of great strength the moment that they appear!

Sure, more information about Ran'jit would be appreciated, though it isn't a problem for him to be powerful enough to give the Warrior of Light and Scions a hard time. The story would be very boring if it was just a power fantasy along the veins as some here wish it to be!

At times, it does have that vibe... I am sure the devs realise that soon grows boring. I just wish they'd put a bit more focus on fight mechanics for fights like Hades, rather than watering down the MSQ version so everyone can get through it with minimal effort and leaving it all to ex modes. Not like you can't just watch a video of the outcome if you're that in a hurry to find it out; the main point of those fights should be their difficulty. I don't put too much stock into mechanical difficulty, though, because MSQ fights will lose out by default, especially depending on the format, but they really can go a bit further with the trials and the like. Like the solo duties with Zenos or Elidibus, or Zenos in the dungeon. They don't do the characters justice by implementing the mechanics in that way, regardless of what their lore "power levels" are, not to mention the joke that they are with tank or healer jobs, which really should see ramped up difficulty to make them sweat a bit. At least it isn't as outright ridiculous as some of the stuff in HW...

With all that said, some people were annoyed that the Dramaturge made their character fetch things.

[Theodric]

I just brush off the disconnect between the EX fights and story fights as game-play and story segregation. I did like it better when the EX fights were canon, though - they do a much better job at making specific characters be very intimidating. Though given how much of a variety there is in terms of skill level amidst members of the community I'm not surprised that the development team are forced to compromise in such a matter.

At least the story makes a point of showing that the Warrior of Light rarely triumphs alone and usually has allies backing him up. If not for that, he'd likely be akin to a squashed pancake on the floor against many a foe! Even in many JRPG's, the 'main hero' never defeats the big bad alone. Or at least in most cases. I've never cared much for the 'one many army' trope, though. Nor have I felt compelled to consider my characters to be as such as a role-player.

[Lauront]

Agreed, I do much the same, though I kinda wish the ex modes were the "canon" ones, with the normals being either non-canon "officially", or just your hazy recollection of them whilst caught up in the excitement of the battle.

Granted, with the WoL there is the aspect of being 9/14ths full "Overlord"-equivalent (then, 8/14ths) plus the Blessing of Light, which is a truly formidable combination, but there are clearly ways you can still blindside the character besides overwhelming them through sheer power and Ran'jit was one case of this. Trying to put it all down to pure "power levels" is probably a fool's errand in this regard.

[Theodric]

Agreed, I do much the same, though I kinda wish the ex modes were the "canon" ones, with the normals being either non-canon "officially", or just your hazy recollection of them whilst caught up in the excitement of the battle.

Granted, with the WoL there is the aspect of being 9/14ths full "Overlord"-equivalent plus the Blessing of Light, which is a truly formidable combination, but there are clearly ways you can still blindside the character besides overwhelming them through sheer power and Ran'jit was one case of this. Trying to put it all down to pure "power levels" is probably a fool's errand in this regard.

Another route would be tighter restrictions on how much you can 'outgear' a fight. Some battles are a lot more impressive than others for that reason. I did Shinryu last night, in fact, and it melted quickly with minimal threat - but at Stormblood's launch it was quite easy to wipe. Tsukoyumi, however, is still quite fearsome if mechanics are not followed due to how much damage she is capable of unleashing.

That, and it's easy to get distracted during the fight due to how much of a tragic character she is! Especially when the music shifts during phase transitions. I still consider Yotsuyu and Hien to be the best characters to come out of Stormblood. Fordola being a close third in equal place with Magnai.