New drk is too much fun!

[ADVSS]

Spin to win? Thats got nothing to do with new DRK at all. Spin to win was inner release/steel cyclone spam. If we had that, I would be way less upset. More sensible blood spenders- like just making AD a blood spender, and i wouldnt complain as much, and yeah even in levelling its gotten a little hard to get TBN to pop. But the reward for that is a free edge/flood. Which, you could just not mitigate with TBN and spend the same mana for anyway.... At 80 its not god awful, but I personally think there needs to be something the blood gauge does besides just damage. AD would be fine, because then we could use delirium for a burst heal, like all the other tanks have...edge/flood should just be one button ability, i get that damage is different, but still tedious when we're using them for refresh and more damage anyway.

Has OP tried WAR yet?

Lol Right?

[RyuDragnier]

People are complaining about the new DRK, because they took one of the highest apm classes in the game that was, imo, really fun to optimimise and micro manage, and turned it into braindead dump mana every min whilst using worse inner release thats slower. Warrior already exists, we didn't need warrior with edgy paintjob.

DRK in SB was really annoying and clunky due to DA spam. I originally played the class in HW and had to give it up in SB because of the loss of its original great identity of a balancing act. Balance your MP, balance your cooldowns, balance your damage, balance your aggro...it had the complexity and micromanaging of a SCH in tank form. SB took away the synergy of its moves and stripped its kit of several of the abilities that made us who we are (outside of Reprisal, did any tank need Low Blow or Anticipation!?), made it practically braindead in the MP department, and forced Dark Arts spam for offensive moves to the point where it could give carpal tunnel (when originally it was used more defensively and tactically). We go from there to now, where it's fluid, there's actual synergy within the entire kit, and is far less annoying to pull out the full potential of. DRK has gotten an identity again along with a bit of tactical complexity it was missing in SB, and IMO is far better for it. Sadly it's not at HW's level, but DRK is actually fun again.

[TheForce]

@Lersayil
Overall...I disagree, I think 5.0 DRK needs a bit more than what you listed to become a complete, enjoyable class. You\\'re right about removing the 60s cd on Abyssal Drain, I think this is one of the worst things about 5.0 DRK, Abyssal Drain just feels really bad and unsatisfying with that long of a a cooldown.

DRK doesn't need just "very slightly" better MP regen, it needs to be bumped up quite a bit. DRK's overall MP regen speed being butchered as much as it was is (I think) one of the main reasons why the class feels so much more sluggish and tedious to play. If DRK had a system of MP management somewhat akin to PLD's, I think it would work a lot better than what we currently have (all of PLDs spells cost 2000 mp, and a single Riot Blade combo restores 1000 mp). I'm just brainstorming here, but in this hypothetical new system, the MP cost of spells could still be 3,000, but Syphon Strike would restore ~1500 MP, and Stalwart Soul combo could restore ~1000 MP.

Also, 5.0 Delirium needs to go. Imo, it's the worst iteration of the skill yet. Aside from just being an unoriginal copy of a skill that already exists, its mechanic is just really repetitive, restricting, and ultimately, boring. It boggles my mind how most people who like 5.0 DRK (not necessarily referring to you @Lersayil, but I'm just speaking generally based on what I've seen and heard) claim to have utterly despised 4.0's Dark Arts spam, but are perfectly fine with this new Delirium essentially forcing you to do the same exact skill over, and over, and over again. Also, if SE is going to make Delirium generate MP with each of these moves, the MP that is restored needs a serious buff to make the function feel worthwhile. I couldn't believe my eyes when a Delirium Bloodspiller only generated 200 MP...that's just insane.

Personally, I thought Delirium worked fairly well in 4.0 when it functioned as a resource (MP) generator. In fact, in 4.0 your Blood Gauge was basically a resource that generated MP for you. I feel like that was a pretty good idea, and the cool thing was you didn't have to use it solely for the sake of MP generation, because we also had the choice to use Bloodspiller. I would like to see 5.0 build off of this foundation. Instead of having damage-only skills for our meter, I would have liked to see more of SB's restorative uses for it, or maybe even some PLD-esque uses that involve some kind of group utility.

Also, there needs to be another combo added, immediately. Even my buddies who have DRK at 80 already and love the class have told me spamming Souleater combo over and over just isn't fun, and understandably so. DRK is the only tank right now with only one single target combo, something needs to be done about that.

And for the love of God lol, can we make Fray actually do something interesting. Honestly, at this point, I think I'd take anything SE decided to give us. Just please, make Living Shadow more than just a glorified D.O.T.

[ADVSS]

@Lersayil
Overall...I disagree, I think 5.0 DRK needs a bit more than what you listed to become a complete, enjoyable class. You\\'re right about removing the 60s cd on Abyssal Drain, I think this is one of the worst things about 5.0 DRK, Abyssal Drain just feels really bad and unsatisfying with that long of a a cooldown.

DRK doesn't need just "very slightly" better MP regen, it needs to be bumped up quite a bit. DRK's overall MP regen speed being butchered as much as it was is (I think) one of the main reasons why the class feels so much more sluggish and tedious to play. If DRK had a system of MP management somewhat akin to PLD's, I think it would work a lot better than what we currently have (all of PLDs spells cost 2000 mp, and a single Riot Blade combo restores 1000 mp). I'm just brainstorming here, but in this hypothetical new system, the MP cost of spells could still be 3,000, but Syphon Strike would restore ~1500 MP, and Stalwart Soul combo could restore ~1000 MP.

Was unaware that PLD got more returns on their syphon move, you know what? The mp boost you suggest might actually fix a ton of problems ive noticed with it, and yeah 8-9 BS in a row is extremely boring as hell, I have no idea why people think thats more fun than boosting a BS to have double potency or something. Use TBN and hope it pops or just use edge and not risk the pop, your mp will be the same at the end anyway, Also, what is the point of the LS timer being added to the DS timer if its non-refreshable? That...That really really got me scratching my head...

[Lersayil]

snip

I see where you are comming from, but personally dont quite agree. Overall I agree that most of the individual DRK mechanics are... mediocre at best. Delirium spam is meh, cds on Salted Earth and Abyssal Drain are way too long, and the mana generation without blood weapon is low.

That being said, for me the sum of these mediocre mechanics are more enjoyable than each of the individual parts would warrant. Sure, it could use some chiseling here and there, but I can live with the base provided here.

Thus my previous comment. When we have our cooldowns its active enough for my liking. The downtimes are a bit too low however with only 1-2-3 and one flood / edge per 20 seconds, so I would like them shortened a bit, or made more active.

[Barachim]

I hate the spin2win mechanic they added to the Dark Knight. It's just so unbelievably, mind-numbingly, boring and slowly drives me insane, playing a spinning wheel for 10 seconds. Also while I could understand why people might have disliked the Dark Arts spam, I actually miss it. It helped to keep me engaged, because I was constantly doing something and was focusing on buffing my damage rotation to its highest possible limit. Now I only have 1 combo string and occasionally hit one of the other available damage buttons.

I know a lot of players weren't happy with the changes to the Job in the Stormblood expansion, but I was still having a lot of fun. Now, now I am actually feeling bored.

[MoonbemSupreme]

Dark Arts ruined the class for me before, so now I will actually play Dark Knight again.

[Awful]

I haven't played new DRK yet I went GNB first but it'll be my 2nd tank job to level right after I level MCH, I do like the ideas of new DRK but we'll see how it goes if it's boring I'll reserve judgement till 80 just like I did with GNB.

[ReiMakoto]

DRK in SB was really annoying and clunky due to DA spam. I originally played the class in HW and had to give it up in SB because of the loss of its original great identity of a balancing act. Balance your MP, balance your cooldowns, balance your damage, balance your aggro...it had the complexity and micromanaging of a SCH in tank form. SB took away the synergy of its moves and stripped its kit of several of the abilities that made us who we are (outside of Reprisal, did any tank need Low Blow or Anticipation!?), made it practically braindead in the MP department, and forced Dark Arts spam for offensive moves to the point where it could give carpal tunnel (when originally it was used more defensively and tactically). We go from there to now, where it's fluid, there's actual synergy within the entire kit, and is far less annoying to pull out the full potential of. DRK has gotten an identity again along with a bit of tactical complexity it was missing in SB, and IMO is far better for it. Sadly it's not at HW's level, but DRK is actually fun again.

I played on DRK in HW, then when SB intially came out I played Warrior, then switched back to DRK when 4.2 came out because I detested inner release. I'm firmly in the camp of I liked Dark Arts, not as much as HW mind you, but still found the mechanic enjoyable, and if you were into micro optimising a fight to get high percentiles it was very fun. Knowing when to tbn to get an extra bloodspiller to prep downtime, trying to make the most of misaligned raid buffs by choosing to mana dump, there was a lot of nuiance you could get out of it if you knew what you were doing. I'm firmly in the I like high APM crowd which is why im not so happy, I think they could have redigned the kit to keep the speed but lose the clunk. Also new Delerium can just go to hell, I hated inner release on WAR, I don't need it on DRK too.

[RatCopter]

Despite my reservations about Inner Delirium, I have found myself sorta liking Bloodspiller spam. I feel like I've lost a few braincells to enjoy it.

Become what you must, I suppose.