New drk is too much fun!

[Jojokomoko]

I'm here to support OP voice as well. While this iteration of DRK might not be what most of the veteran players want, I still find it quite enjoyable at lvl 80 while doing extreme trails.

The hostility in this thread is a bit too much. I don't understand the people who act all condescending towards people that like this new version of DRK.

[T-Owl]

To be honest, I think I would enjoy the current iteration of Dark Knight more if the cooldowns of the ogcds would be reduced by quite a bit and the mp generation would be increased. It has potential, but the problem is that it has too much of a downtime where you are basically doing nothing but spamming the 1-3 combo without anything else, with the odd bloodspiller or edge inbetween while waiting for bloodweapon and your ogcds. Gunbreaker works better in this regard because it's downtime is by far smaller. It generates its gauge ability after every combo, we do it only after 2 1/2 combos, which is a plus and its burst phase in terms of playstyle is ready every 30 seconds. You get your trigger-combo ready before the 1-3 spam can become too monotonous.

Delirium suffers in my opinion under the issue that it just doesn't feels impactful. The numbers are rather small compared to WAR and there is no big finisher like with PLD. The mp generation in single target is basically just compensating for us not using the 1-3 combo, so there is no mp-gain which would justify the ability being weaker than inner release. I think it would actually feel nicer if they would cut the mp-gain of delirium alltogether and instead make it so that bloodspiller generates edge. Maybe nerfing edge a little bit to compensate for it becoming more spammable if it would end up making the DRK too strong. Bloodweapon should decrease the gcd again or become a more frequent ability.

Delirium generating dark arts would give back a feeling of high speed which the DRK lacks, just like the GNB feels speedy due to its trigger ogcds.

[jetfire117]

To be honest, I think I would enjoy the current iteration of Dark Knight more if the cooldowns of the ogcds would be reduced by quite a bit and the mp generation would be increased. It has potential, but the problem is that it has too much of a downtime where you are basically doing nothing but spamming the 1-3 combo without anything else, with the odd bloodspiller or edge inbetween while waiting for bloodweapon and your ogcds. Gunbreaker works better in this regard because it's downtime is by far smaller. It generates its gauge ability after every combo, we do it only after 2 1/2 combos, which is a plus and its burst phase in terms of playstyle is ready every 30 seconds. You get your trigger-combo ready before the 1-3 spam can become too monotonous.

Delirium suffers in my opinion under the issue that it just doesn't feels impactful. The numbers are rather small compared to WAR and there is no big finisher like with PLD. The mp generation in single target is basically just compensating for us not using the 1-3 combo, so there is no mp-gain which would justify the ability being weaker than inner release. I think it would actually feel nicer if they would cut the mp-gain of delirium alltogether and instead make it so that bloodspiller generates edge. Maybe nerfing edge a little bit to compensate for it becoming more spammable if it would end up making the DRK too strong. Bloodweapon should decrease the gcd again or become a more frequent ability.

Delirium generating dark arts would give back a feeling of high speed which the DRK lacks, just like the GNB feels speedy due to its trigger ogcds.

I mostly agree with you, but I feel the fear more mp gain would bring us back to dark-arts spam like in stormblood? I mean I would be "fine" with that since at least edge/flood have different animations that are pretty cool. I also agree that something needs to be done so our downtime doesn't feel so long. Maybe a shortened CD on bloodweapon or just give the haste effect back to make things seem faster. But I'm guessing they removed that effect because they want gunbreaker to be the new "speed" tank?

[T-Owl]

I mostly agree with you, but I feel the fear more mp gain would bring us back to dark-arts spam like in stormblood? I mean I would be "fine" with that since at least edge/flood have different animations that are pretty cool. I also agree that something needs to be done so our downtime doesn't feel so long. Maybe a shortened CD on bloodweapon or just give the haste effect back to make things seem faster. But I'm guessing they removed that effect because they want gunbreaker to be the new "speed" tank?

It doesn't need to be spammed as often as the old dark arts, just more often. Delirium needs to be made more exciting. Right now it is just a worse inner release that doesn't even let us use more edge because the mp gain is even less than what a 1-3 combo would give us in 5 gcds.

[Delily]

As for the boss fights, I don't see that enough to change it and if it DOES change the feeling, it's the fight that's good. Not the actual class. Put another way, I don't think the fights are going suddenly make MNK fun to play if you didn't like what they did(or keep doing) to it. DRK shouldn't get a free pass.

My point here is to weigh the complexity of a job against the requirements of the fight. I can understand how trying to make full use of the DRKs skill set from HW (for example) would prove to be too hard in some savage and ex fights and people would opt for an easier job.

[Reynhart]

I can understand how trying to make full use of the DRKs skill set from HW (for example) would prove to be too hard in some savage and ex fights and people would opt for an easier job.

Yes, they probably would, that's why we have multiple jobs in each role. But, what about people who actually like a job with a more complex skillset ?

[ADVSS]

Yes, they probably would, that's why we have multiple jobs in each role. But, what about people who actually like a job with a more complex skillset ?

As much as I agree with you, Reynhart, look at how sch and ast feel right now. Its pretty obvious to me thats just the direction they're taking this game, it seems. According to the polls, their ire is reflected in at least 3x more than ours, seems like we;re just a vocal minority on this issue. So far SMN has so many buttons to push it makes SB DRK look like a slow class, I'm enjoying it quite a bit. PLD will be my main tank, but I will probably skip most of this expansion like I did in SB. Which is a shame, maybe I couldve been around more then to argue up a DRK rework that would have the best of both worlds back then. They seem to have balancing issues when it comes to tanks, Funny after all this STR fighting, we get str back on tanks after 2 1/2 years, but its now so controlled it wouldnt have mattered if they kept it vit/str with the new materia melding(1/2 of usable materia for 5 years now gone from the game) Pretty obvious that the direction theyre taking both of the roles, even since then, is one of too much similarity untill they feel and act nearly exactly the same. In those regards, they did a really good job, one that I highly disagree with. If theyre going to be doing that, they should just make DRK and PLD almost the same but one cast black magic and the other white. Thing is, I see the direction we're being taken, and that means self heals will probably go away from tanks/most dps, so they can streamline healers and make them absolutely necessary all the time, every time. Tank Stance off, is in the history books now, they put their foot down on the whole debate.

[Reynhart]

According to the polls, their ire is reflected in at least 3x more than ours, seems like we;re just a vocal minority on this issue.

I don't know how many we are, but I guess we're not that less than people asking for Savage or Ultimate content, nor people asking for exploration content. I think we're enough so that we could find what we look in one of the four tanks. Exactly like we should have had one option to play a competitive turtle tank back then.

So far SMN has so many buttons to push it makes SB DRK look like a slow class, I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

You're absolutely right. So, if people want to play an easier caster, they'll simply chose another job, like RDM.

On a sidenote, keeping Power Slash (either as a finisher or a full combo) to give 10 Blood and a buff (Haste buff being my favorite), would not have made DRK that more complex, and would've already fixed the issue of SoulEater-ing ad nauseum.

[MerlinCross]

My point here is to weigh the complexity of a job against the requirements of the fight. I can understand how trying to make full use of the DRKs skill set from HW (for example) would prove to be too hard in some savage and ex fights and people would opt for an easier job.

I suppose I can agree to that but like Reynhart said, there's a reason we have more than one job per role. I mean I can't wrap my head around SMN or even BLK to degree. And while that limits my Magic Ranged jobs, I do have MCH and BRD for my ranged needs. I always saw AST and SCH too complex so WHM for me. I never asked for AST or SCH to get change for it to be easier to play myself but I admit I'm in minority on that point(I wanted WHM brought up not others brought down).

But the thing is, I don't see new DRK as complex and boss fights don't look to change that. It looks to be on a very expected rotation with clear moments where you are allowed to go ham. Like I'm casual or even below that but if I can look at new DRK and take a fairly good stab at how it's rotation is, something is off. It's almost like SE got tired of the complaints and sat every DRK down and, in bold letters on the chalk board, went "This is how you're expected to play and there's no questions after the lesson".

I'm not allowed to make a decision on what to Dark Arts. I'm not allowed to another 1-2-3 hit. I'm not hyped by seeing my blood hit max. I'm on a very routine and expected track for the next 2 years. Now fights can and possibly will change some aspects of this, but not enough to make it feel like a different class.

Now does this make it seem like a BAD class. No, given that people are praising how busted TBN is(Though I'm not seeing a lot of people singing about how much damage we do, hmm.). It's just not the class for me anymore.

[Arek]

I agree with the statement that after the good opener, the downtime on DRK is too long. [EDIT] : I think the AoE Gameplay is fine. Love Startwart Souls animation and try to cast TBN as soon as possible to break it and cast Flood of Darkness. It's really the Single Target gameplay which has some flaws.

1.2.3 sometimes 4 (Edge or Bloodspiller) while waiting for CDs.

DRK has a good base but PLD and GNB seems more busy than us. GNB has 2 DoTs to keep on, + alternate normal combo and Bullet Combo (and Extra skill in between.)

DRK is busy at start then waiting 60 and 90 sec to do something else than 1.2.3 (and 4 sometimes). It can be boring for some/alot of people who were playing previous iterations of DRK.

I know it depends of players, it's a matter of tastes and I don't want to come back to the awful Dark Arts of the end of Stormblood (at the start of SB, it was not that worse) but I want more gameplay than 1.2.3(4) during 1 min while waiting for CDs.

I hope I explain this well, I don't talk about effective but about gameplay. And again, I know others peoples can disagree with this, it's okay to have different opinions.

DRK still a special job to me (played since FFXI and Heavensward) so I want it to be more fun to play. ^^