Take a step back, and adjust.

[Hawklaser]

I came back to the forums cause I was looking to see if anyone else had been noticing some of the same things about the Shadowbringers dungeons I was, in order to see if there was something I was missing, or if my observations had been right. What I saw I was not really expecting.

What I saw was a nice bit of doom and gloom about how such and such job or role was ruined, or that the only bit that mattered was endgame content and raids. Or things are being made too simple. And Shadowbringers has not even left early access.

I fully understand that some might not fully be in swing with all the new changes, as I know I would like a few Sch abilities back. But I really think people might benefit from taking a step back, and looking at things from a few different angles as well.

And I think the stuff I was running into when doing Dohn Mheg a few times kinda highlights a lot of why taking the step back would be a good thing. As when a tank mentioned would take it easy on the pulls after wiped twice on the first pull of a dungeon, when it was his first time completing it too.

But after seeing some of the stuff on the forums, I felt it might be better to remind people to take a step back, and re-adjust for the expansion instead of trying to stuff Shadowbringers into the same gameplay that worked for Stormblood or any other expansion. As I am seeing much of a similar attitude on the forums as the "It worked for Stormblood, why should I adjust for Shadowbringers" vibe I picked up from that tank.

They adjusted abilities for all jobs in regards to combat, so it might also be a good idea to consider that they also adjusted the parameters of what is needed for each encounter as well. Both of which will take a bit of time to get adjusted to.

There are going to be a bunch of newer players, and returning ones that might be a bit rusty, which would both not be up to snuff to just treat every dungeon as being on farm from Day 0. Those who have been farming endgame content will also have to adjust to these players, just as much as the new and returning players will have to adjust to those that never left.

Those complaining things are being adjusted to things being too simple for tanks/healers, might want to also try considering things from the new player perspective. Consider how daunting it becomes for a new player that wants to try playing a tank or healer, once they find out the expectations is being able to grab 2-4 encounters at a time in most dungeons, and not being able to due so thanks to being new.

So I just wanted to remind people it can be very beneficial to take a step back, consider things from other perspectives, and be willing to adjust. As Shadowbringers could very easily have a much different balancing point than the prior expansions, and couple that with all the other ability changes that came with it.

[MomomiMomi]

Except nothing's changed other than the classes people are complaining about have become more boring. Encounters are the same they've always been.

And no, the game should not be balanced around the lowest common denominator, because the lowest players are abysmal. They should be expected to eventually reach higher levels, not the other way around.

[FFgame]

You don't sub my pay. How about you step up instead of asking others to adjust. You can practice with npcs since for some unknown reason they wasted dev time on TRUST system instead of dungeons extreme mode. Someone better be using it.

[Hawklaser]

You don't sub my pay. How about you step up instead of asking others to adjust. You can practice with npcs since for some unknown reason they wasted dev time on TRUST system instead of dungeons extreme mode. Someone better be using it.

Post's like yours are why I felt compelled to remind people it can be beneficial to take a step back, and adjust. As you seem to think the game revolves around end game content only, and don't really want to consider any other viewpoint.

As I wasn't coming back to the forums to complain about why I was having problems in dungeons when tanks felt the need to pull multiple mob groups, but to try and find ways I could improve my play to make those pulls go smoother if at all possible. Or as you so eloquently put it "Step up".

On the Trust system they implemented, did you ever consider the fact that the reason it might have been added has nothing to do with new players at all? But that it could have been intended as way to help keep DPS story dungeon queue times reasonable so those players can enjoy the expansion at their own pace instead of hitting 15+ minute walls of waiting due to either their odd playtimes or that many tanks and healers are focused on their MSQ progression and are farther ahead thanks to their normally much shorter queues.

And no, the game should not be balanced around the lowest common denominator, because the lowest players are abysmal.

On the flip side to them not balancing the game around the lowest common denominator, the game should also not be balanced around just the hardcore raiders either. The balance point should ideally be somewhere in the middle for most of the content. And from one expansion to the next, what is used as the perceived balancing point for the Developers is going to move around a bit. I made no comment about balancing around any one group, but was suggesting that it might pay to step back and not assume that the devs used the same balancing metrics for Shadowbringers as they did for Stormblood.

I am already getting vibes that they did use different metrics, as going through all of Stormblood, I didn't have many issues at all with tanks doing large pulls, but yet in Shadowbringers I dread them currently. In part due to still adjusting to the Sch changes, and in part due to the tanks HP seeming to swing much faster in the larger pulls than it did before. Maybe its my play, maybe its the tanks play, maybe its the DPS's play. Or it could also be the Devs made changes to discourage large pulls or tweaked them in such a way that they are much harder to succeed at if all party members are not pulling their weight. As some groups I have been in, those pulls are possible, others its not, but every single time they do happen, it takes about all I got to keep the tank up as long as possible in order for the dps to get enough mobs killed for the pull to work.

[Vanitas]

Game's too hard folks. Remove all mechanics and make all rotations one button.

[Baka_Neko1]

Post's like yours are why I felt compelled to remind people it can be beneficial to take a step back, and adjust. As you seem to think the game revolves around end game content only,.

did you just call ex trials endgame content? Lol

[Wilford111]

The response from the hardcore elite players is disheartening, to say the least. I would have expected some understanding especially since OP's posts are put very eloquently and comprehensively. Seems only natural to reply respectfully as she was.

Also, I do consider ex trials end-game content, seeing as how the only other content that's harder is savage raids

[Maneesha]

Those complaining things are being adjusted to things being too simple for tanks/healers, might want to also try considering things from the new player perspective. Consider how daunting it becomes for a new player that wants to try playing a tank or healer, once they find out the expectations is being able to grab 2-4 encounters at a time in most dungeons, and not being able to due so thanks to being new.

Making jobs simpler and people having anxiety of tanking/healing are completely different things.
1. They are afraid to make a mistake and cause a wipe and hear people complain. At least when they hear that the norm is 2-4 packs, they know what to aim for. Also we play the game this way because of the encounter design and game mechanics designed by the dev team.
2. Making classes easier for newer players is a mistake,imo. You "might" get a few new players to play them, but they will play them because they like tanking/healing/dpsing, not because its now easier (sure there might be a few that will play them because they are easier). What about the existing players?While you might get a few new ones to play those classes, you lose existing ones, because they got bored or disliked the simplified version, so you gained nothing...

Really i am sick of hearing the devs always talking about making things easier for the "potential" new players who might not even want to play those classes and completely disregard the existing players. Is a higher learning curve really that bad? Do they think the new players will be dumber then the players they already have, so they have to simplify things for them? Don't the existing players deserve to expand on their knowledge,skill and be challenged with their class because the dev team added more to the already existing mechanics,instead of removing them...

Sorry about the rant..
Also don't worry, people will adjust or they will switch classes or play another game :P

The response from the hardcore elite players is disheartening, to say the least. I would have expected some understanding especially since OP's posts are put very eloquently and comprehensively. Seems only natural to reply respectfully as she was.

Also, I do consider ex trials end-game content, seeing as how the only other content that's harder is savage raids

Welcome to the forum/internet. Where everyone is a pro and farms "likes" with "cool" comments, like this one

[Vahlnir]

did you just call ex trials endgame content? Lol

Extreme trials are endgame content...of a sort. I'd say it's catered more towards the midcore player base though, while Savage and Ultimate cater to the hardcore. Mechanically, they are somewhat complex, though not too complex. The weapon drops also have a pretty respectable item level, especially if one is keen on playing multiple jobs. With mounts and other cosmetics as well they have a little something for a lot of people to work for if they so choose.

[Nabian]

did you just call ex trials endgame content? Lol

Ex-Trials are more like a gap between story and endgame content...or maybe endgame for casual players?