Let's Discuss: WHM's new Lily System

[Yuyuka3]

Copy-pasting this from the other WHM thread:

So, I got to test WHM in the new level 80 dungeons today and I have to say... it feels even slower to me than before. I spend so much time waiting for the GCD to wear off after using one of my new instant skills while not having much to weave with, it's not even funny... if I use them at all, which, except for Afflatus Rapture, I barely ever do outside of trash packs. Temperance is also either not really needed, or needed more often than I can use it with overzealous tanks, confirming my underwhelming first impression of the skill. It really needs a shorter CD, and at least Afflatus Misery needs to be oGCD or else I will have gone mad before the raids even drop. Better would be all of them being oGCD, but on a CD for a few seconds. Also, I was still sitting on 3 Lilies from time to time without any feasible way to dump them (I refuse to overheal/loose DPS through suboptimal Lily usage), so I really think we need a way to dump them outside of healing.

I also noticed that my heals feel kinda underwhelming compared to how much they healed before relative to party HP and I actually used two AoE-heals back-to-back a few times already to make sure people got enough HP for the next mechanic, which isn't all that bad I guess, but pretty annoying. It might be because of this being the start of the expansion and our Mind stat being very low in comparison, but I'm not quite sure about this. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but as I said, slightly annoying when you know how it was before. It looks like this is an impression across all healers, too.

The one thing I really like about the new WHM, though, is that it's basically impossible to run out of MP now...

Small addition, but I think that we really need to be granted at least one, or best even three, Lilies when we start a battle; it's just annoying having to wait 30 seconds just to use them once, and 90 to build all three stacks.

Also unfortunately have to agree with Semirhage again, with the other healers complaining so much and at times even crying nerf, we are in to another expansion of WHM stagnation while AST and SCH get buffed into high heavens (or, you know, maybe even WHM nerfs incoming...), and SE being surprised healer balancing is still such a huge, glaring issue. I almost cannot wait to tell the "wait and see"-crowd that I told them so... or would, if it wasn't so sad and frustrating.

[Atlantasia]

Right now WHM is playing as a discount store SCH because the Lily System is playing like a 1 Aetherflow stack every 30 Seconds with crappier actions to expend them on.

The same weakness is apparent because of this, no non-healing drain when no healing is needed. On top of this, Solace is just a worse Lustrate that you cannot spam because it's GCD.

I haven't hit 76 yet (nearly there), so I have no comment on Rapture yet, but Misery doesn't make Solace feel more fun for me so far.

I don't mind having a similar skill management to SCH, but recycling our own skills and effects is meh to me. I want something other than just a Swiftcast Med I and Cure II with no MP cost.

I'd be all for a party buff, but I don't see them ever going that direction for WHM. I am fine with top pDPS that offsets the pDPS and rDPS that SCH and AST provide, if it's roughly equal, then I'm fine with that direction too.

Is the new system a step in the right direction? Yes. But I don't think it's quite far enough and we all know they'll be buffing AST and SCH for half the expansion so any minor things WHM has as an advantage will quickly disappear with subsequent patches.

[Silver-Strider]

Need more abilities to use Lilies on honestly. You get Solace/Lily System at 52 and then......nothing for over 20 levels until Rapture at 76. That's a huge gap in progress for something that is suppose to be an important tool for us to utilize. To make matters worse, I honestly feel like Cure1+2 have been almost entirely replaced by Solace since its essentially a free Cure 2 without the cast time. I've yet to find a moment when my Lily gauge is empty in fights and I'm just using Solace when I need to stop DPSing to heal up someone and I can't help but imagine Rapture will do the same for Medica once I unlock it.

Personally, I'm all for adding Protect, Haste, Brave, etc to the Lily system as WHM's utility toolkit.

[Fawkes]

Another expansion where I would rather they just delete lilies. Get rid of Afflatus Solace and Rapture and just give Tetra and Assize the new charges mechanic that DPS got. And make Afflatus Misery just a 90 second cooldown.

Lilies aren't fun and just feel like a pointless extra limitation for the sake of having a job gauge. It's something you can screw up but you don't really get rewarded for doing it right.

[Celef]

Now that the AST lost the speed buff from the arrow, WHM could totally use it to get rid of useless lilies instead of just overhealing :/
Plus, in other FF, Hast has always been kind of OUR thing soooo it would not at all change the essence of the job

[Raminax]

To echo some sentiments, I think that we could've shamelessly removed the Lilies as is, given Rapture and Solace a 30 second cooldown and Misery a 90 second cooldown. Possibly with an extra charge available on Solace and Rapture. I'm all for meaningful Job Gauges, but Lilies feel more restrictive, rather than empowering.

That said, it really only feels bad when I use it on Solace. Rapture I don't mind all that much, especially if I can synchronize it together with Plenary. Besides the obvious buff or damage dump that would be good to have for moments when you don't really have to use the Lilies for healing, Solace could stand to be more unique. Maybe let it extend Regen by a few seconds, or guarantee a Freecure trigger. Or rework it to consume all HoTs on the target to grant a heal equivalent to the ticks consumed. Anything to make it stand out or to synergize better with the rest of our kit.

[RayThrust]

I would like some sort of utility/buff (if not damage) to use lilies on when not needing to heal and a lower level black rose like Aero 3.

[Cerick]

I guess I am one of the few that really likes the Lily system. Even with the single target and essentially group heal being on gcd, I don't mind it one bit. It lets me DPS in dungeons to speed things up with Holy spam, Assize, Dia, and Glare.

I am really happy with the changes and Rapture is a lot of fun when it's up as it helps mow down a trash pull with the other AE abilities we are casting for damage.

[Gaethan_Tessula]

So, I've pitched this idea before, and I'll do it here again.

I like the Afflatus skills being GCD. I like the IDEA of finding the best spot to use 3 GCD heals in 90 seconds. I think making these skills oGCD's does even more to make us a discount Scholar, and I find job identity to be very important (the present healer changes are a cardinal sin against identity).

My idea is to flesh out the lily system. GCD Afflatus heals from automatic lilies create lilies of another color that can be spent on DPS or buff skills. These in turn feed the blood lily. Using Misery then applies a buff to future first and/or second step lily actions. Perhaps eventually grant some way to earn lilies faster than 30s, the boring way being a cooldown and the better way being as a reward for accomplishing some milestone with the lily rotation or another "accomplishment" done via good gameplay (I've always wanted some trait that rewards the player for minimizing overheal, for example).

An example: Afflatus Solace/Rapture change lily color, which enables the use of a skill called "The Land Remembers" which upgrades the next usage of Glare, Dia, or Fluid Aura to Quake, Tornado, or Flood. These are instant casts, so you can use them for movement or weaving. Quake is a mini Misery, Tornado is a minute-long DoT that stacks with Dia, Flood is an improved version of whatever Fluid Aura can be reworked into to not suck (my current idea is a flex skill that benefits a party member, while being an oGCD damage plus bind to enemies. Flood might just make it so it hits ALL allies and enemies). Things like turning Presence of Mind into a partywide Haste or the like are also possibilities for step 2 (or beyond) Lily skills.

Also, I think Divine Seal needs to make a return as a pre-Temperance.

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

Think it needs to be reversed honestly and it would be more fun. Let me cast misery (with a lower potency) with lilies and the blood lily can be spent on 1 big ogcd heal aoe or single version. This also adds an extra level to deciding when to use the damage (off cooldown or wait for burst phases)