Thread: 5.0 Machinist Launch Feedback

Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Let’s be clear, ping dependency is NOT a playstyle. If 2 people are in the same gear and equally skilled pressing the same buttons at the exact same time and one of them does less damage purely because they live further away, that is bad design. This is an MMO and ping issues should really be factored into how they design the game, not just MCH, but the entire game.

And people haven’t “suddenly” started complaining about this, it’s been the biggest complaint about the job since SB and even to a lesser degree in HW. While it’s certainly not as punishing now as it was in SB, it would have been better if the issue was removed entirely and I imagine people were hoping for that.

The playstyle doesn’t have to change at all for ping to not be an issue. If instead of giving us 8 seconds to use 5 heat blasts, they gave us 5 heat canisters, as a type of aetherflow mechanic, ping wouldn’t be an issue anymore. We’d still need to use all 5 as fast as possible to fit them into wildfire and we’d still need to expend oGCDs to prevent overcapping within those canister shots. But we wouldn’t be punished with a heat blast just refusing to activate because we didn’t get it within the 0.5 second window because of a clipped oGCD, throwing out that entire GCD (because the game started the cast but then cancelled it thanks to latency).

The same Problems were also stated about Ninja and too a extent monk also, OGCDs and faster rotations have always impacted higher Ping Rotations, and your changes would Not work.

1) your fix doesnt fix the DPS Difference between a Low and high Ping.

2) It doesnt deal with Double Weaving which is another thing that impacts people of a high Ping.

Due to how FFXIV Combat works, Fast rotations Dont Work on high Ping at all, because the only way to ramp Speed into Rotations is Simply by OGCDs Faster GCDs and Double Weaving. which all impact a player with high ping, so while no the term "latency problem" isnt a playstyle, the Playstyle Adopted CAUSES "latency problems" and cant be Performed without those flaws existing.

the only way to make FFXIV Entirely high ping friendly, is to all together slow down combat even further and Reduce the Options for players who want fast rotations.

they did CREATE a high ping friendly Machinist,

its Called Bard. i highly Suspect, they also Partly changed Bard into a DPS so they could have a high ping alternative to Machinist as Bard has been created with ALOT less OGCDs and no Reduced GCDs, thus giving players as yourself a Option to be a Pure Ranged Physical DPS Also without taking the possibility of a Fast rotation away from those who want it. this is also another thing i've not understood about these arguments, Most say "we dont need Spammy Low Damage attacks, Combining the damage would perform the same DPS on Slower Rotations" but Bard is exactly that, its a high DPS roughly the same point as Machinist DPS wise. and offers Slower bigger Hits with its abilities, with what can be compared to Just Nukes. yet you all Reject Bard. So clearly, you want the Spammy low damage attacks. because ur prefering it to Bard which is Exactly what your asking for.

Condensing Machinist down will litterally make us a bard Copy, Bards do the same thing as Machinists almost, the differences Lies alot of its Damage comes from its DoTs and Heavy hitting attacks, but its OGCD options are far smaller, with no Weaving, no double weaving, and no bursts of Low GCD moments or Spamming. so if ur Ideal Machinist are these changes, bard should effectively be perfect for you....

Machinist has been Unfriendly to high ping for over 2 years now, Realistically they havent taken anything away from you. to make Machinist high ping friendly and get a high ping player on the same DPS as a Low Ping Player, the Job would have to lose Double weaving capability, Lower GCD Capability, and the quantity of Spam Abilities it has. it'd require a Second overhaul to make work, or they'd just half fix it and leave us in the same state as we were for the entirity of SB.

whats the point in introducing changes. if It still doesnt fix the job for high ping players and to that end, is Removing Fast paced OGCD heavy Playstyles from the game entirely Worth it. Because it will lose them players, theres no reason Something like Machinist cant exist providing theres Alternatives to machinist.

not every job in the game has to be catered to every player in the game, Jobs are options, 90% of the Jobs run on slower Rotations and are made in a way to be high ping friendly, theres nothing wrong with those who do have Low Ping to pull off the Accelerated Gameplay wanting a Choice also.

your fix also causes multiple other problems. if ur able to Pre-use it to Generate 5 charges, it could become Meta to cast it before a fight by so many Seconds to Then get off a Second burst sooner, which could lead into More problems. The last thing we want is to be Another Job that gets wrecked everytime someone immediately pulls the boss. it doesnt fix the problems at all, your problem garuntees a final heatblast.. but your still not going to perform like a Low Ping player, u have no access to the Machinist Double Weaving capability. your still gonbig to be the exact same behind a Low Ping player, ur fixs just make it sound better on paper, but in reality wouldnt change a Dime. if the the fixs were that easy SE would have Implemented them.

the reason these QoLs Dont exist, because they dont work, FFXIV Combat is set up in a Way Ping Affects it, Thats a Inherit flaw of the Systems in itself, but nothing can be perfect. for high ping and low ping players to perform at the same Level, u would have to remove OGCDs, Weaving, Abilities that lower GCDs and Timers all together, because there are people over 400 MS Playing this game, if they're going to cater to u at 200MS why shouldnt they then cater to 400MS.. why not ascend to a point where we have 6 buttons we press in a row continously. to ensure no ones at a disadvantage, while at that Why not Reduce the games Graphical Ability to cater to those with worse PCs.

the list of QoLs to cater to players Problems is ENDLESS, if u start fixing them this will pass to the next problematic Topics, no game provides a World where NO ONES at a advantage. that is why MMORPGS fix the problem by introducing Different Jobs. so if one DOesnt work the Next will, Jobs are not built to cater to everyone, they're built to give People a Option.

Originally Posted by Arkenne

Question tho:
So they ended up being 5 Heat Blast in 1 Hypercharge? not 6?

its defintly 5, i have 26 Ping, and cannot do 6, the animation doesnt work at all even if u try to cast a 6 while the buttons Still glowing, so it should be pretty doable aslong as ur Ping isnt completely wrecked.

One other thing I'd like to ask...

Can we have Flamethrower's animation changed to using our new multi-tool like Bioblaster? Maybe put a new attachment on it, but it seems kind of weird that we have this awesome tool and we shoot the fire from our gun. I know it's just a carry over from the SB animation, but it'd look much cooler with the tool.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by memepapa

I also had this idea of giving 5 rounds of ammunition that you would expend and wouldn't miss a cast due to high ping and having to weave the ricochet and gauss round ogcds. It seems like a reasonable and thematic way to help higher ping players.

The other thing that may be affected if the latency is very high is fitting in the last gcd into the wildfire window, but at least it should hopefully be more forgiving than the current hyper charge system and missing casts of the overcharged moves.

Hopefully these kind of posts are noticed by the dev team!

It would not fix. Reguardless to how they set out heated shot or hypercharge. You can’t weave beneath the 1.25 GCD you can’t actively double weave either.

Your dps wouldn’t be any higher realistically. Because if ur pings at a level u cant physically weave, ur missing DPS Throughout its entire gameplay, because its built on the back of Weaving and Double weaving. if ur treating Ricochet and GUass Round as physical GCDs because u litterally cant weave. then its still problematic, and if they fix the ping problem for you, they'll only have another with a higher Ping then urself who will still have more issues.

This type of playstyle has been hell for high ping players across the board. SB had a collection of jobs which weren’t useable by those with high ping either.

It looks good on paper but it would not fix the issues. Merely dress them up differently.

They made their best option.

Turning bard into a pure dps also matching machinist with less OGCDs and stays on 2.5 second GCD

Gave high ping players a choice. This was pretty much the best fix they offered. Problem is people ignore this and fire on with machinist and while yes, they could redo it into a slower job for people suffering this problem. It puts the players out who want machinists new playstyle out without the same option as you already have.

It sounds selfish as a low ping player for wanting machinist to remain as is, but you have to remember. We have like 1-3 job choices as far as this playstyle has.

While every other job has been slowed down enough and lost enough OGCD capability to facilitate you,

Slowing down mechanist will make us a bard clone. And it’s unnecessary because bard offers you exactly what your asking for, and its likely been done in this way for that reason... create 2 Ranged Physical DPS Orintated Jobs, to fit both sides of the playerbase.

I get people get frustrated that they dont enjoy specific Jobs, but these jobs would be 400x more boring if they were catered to every player individually, Jobs Dont need to change for players, they need to be Unique Different with all their Different flaws and perfections to give Players enough options to find one they love..

Does machinist need to be changed?.. no, it Facilitates ALOT of players now, its gone from the most underepresented job, to maybe one of the most. ALOT of players Love the new machinist, talk to any streamer, they're all being told by masses how amazing this job is. Maybe the job just isnt for you, its as simple as that. they cant redo a job everytime someone levels one up to find out they dislike it.

I hate RDM and Dancer, RNG is Uncontrollable, it offers Less control over ur own gameplay and puts most of your achievements on Luck. Its infuritating, it doesnt mean i feel the job needs to change.. it made me feel like i needed to change the job i was playing, every job is built towards a group of Players Mindsets, Machinist is there for People who want Machinist and those that dont have like 14 other DPS jobs they can choose from. if they were trying to cater every job to every player.. and fixing every job for every player problem there was, they may aswell delete all the jobs create 1 Job and make us all the same.. cause its pointless homogenizing Jobs to those extents to make this a reality.

every job has Someone who hates it, every job has Flaws that make it difficult on players.

SE Could Lower the graphics of the game for people with worse PCs, They could Slow down Savage Raidings Mechanics for players with arthiritius, They could Remove Openers for People with Brain injuries.. there are THOUSANDS of things in the world that affect players which isnt their fault, Designing Every job Around Every one of these possibilities, Would do nothing but Make the game boring and homogenized.

if this was across the board all jobs, i'd agree with you something needs to be done, but More of the jobs faciliate those with a higher ping then jobs which faciliate Players who want faster gameplay and we accept our pool of choice is much smaller to allow Everyone to participate in the game. but we have to be Left some options to choose from otherwise ur doing nothing but building the grounds where we all leave to find a Game which does faciliate what we want :P.

there are alot more people loving Machinist, then dont, theres nothing wrong with Not enjoying a job, or finding a job which isnt for u, its Not something that needs fixing, it isnt fixable. This is why WoW is crashing.. its trying to make Everything faciliate Everyone. and it doesnt work, its a Failure of a Idea, you cant Make cool things. or interesting things If ur handicapping urself to trying to make sure 100% of the playerbase Love it.

at the end of the day, in a couple of months everyone will be unhappy with the fact MAchinist wont be Meta, Due to the fact its now a Selfish job with 0 Unique Utility and theyre generally view to be a Worse choice then the jobs which offer more to the Raid DPS :P