Question pertaining to the afterlife in FFXIV

[Dezarc]

also worshipers of the twelve (and probably other religions on hydaelyn) believe in an afterlife where the righteous have a place in the heavens and sinners sent to the hells, regardless of what is 'scientifically' correct about what happens to a person's aether upon their death

[Enkidoh]

also worshipers of the twelve (and probably other religions on hydaelyn) believe in an afterlife where the righteous have a place in the heavens and sinners sent to the hells, regardless of what is 'scientifically' correct about what happens to a person's aether upon their death

Not exactly, the Church of Halone and the Church of Nald'thal both believe in the righteous of their respective faiths being sent to the halls of their respective deity (with how the Halls of Halone and Thal refered to in universe coming across suspicously similar as to the Norse Valhalla), but it's unclear if the dogma of the other members of the Twelve had similar beliefs, although it's likely that they do.

A final note on that subject is it seems at the very least the average Eorzean believes (or did believe anyway) in a generic 'afterlife', or at least, that's how 1.0 refered to it (bear in mind that concepts we have in ARR did not exist/were never refered to in 1.0, such as Hydaelyn Herself, other than a vague nameless reference, or the Lifestream, which was simply called 'the river of aether') - my Path Companion frequently eluded to this generic 'afterlife' in her dialogue, an example is below (ignore the.... innuendo in it, the miqo'te Path Companion in 1.0 was always blatantly flirting with the player's character):

Miqo'te Path Companion: "We would surely be enjoying each other's company in the afterlife, even now, if they did not have plans for us."

With ARR though these references to the afterlife in Hydaelyn as... um.. the 'afterlife' seem to have disappeared so it's possible that may have been retconned out, but it's still an interesting element to this discussion anyway.

[Dezarc]

Not exactly, the Church of Halone and the Church of Nald'thal both believe in the righteous of their respective faiths being sent to the halls of their respective deity (with how the Halls of Halone and Thal refered to in universe coming across suspicously similar as to the Norse Valhalla), but it's unclear if the dogma of the other members of the Twelve had similar beliefs, although it's likely that they do.

While some sects of Twelve worship have different views of the afterlife, most believe that the righteous are promised a place in the heavens while sinners are doomed to an eternity of punishing trials in the hells. A belief made popular by a famous theologian and playwright of the Sixth Astral Era states that upon an evil man's death, he will fall to a hell that corresponds to the sins he committed in his lifetime. Once suffering an eternity in payment for these sins, he must journey through the remaining five "upper hells" and witness the sins of his brothers, before finally arriving at the gate of the seventh hell, where his heart will be weighed. If it is heavy with sorrow and repentance fur what he has done, he will be sent to the heavens. But if it remains light, he will be admitted to the seventh hell where he will suffer forevermore.

it goes on to describe each of the six hells and heavens, but it's a little annoying to transcribe

[Jaywalker]

it goes on to describe each of the six hells and heavens, but it's a little annoying to transcribe

Can confirm lorebook has hells and heavens ascribed to two deities each, matched in turn to elements. Halone and Menphina rule the heaven and hell of ice, Nald'Thal and Azemya rule the heaven and hell of fire, etc. etc. It is remarkably detailed.

I also wanna mention, Sephirot's theme mentions seven hells and seven heavens. We know there are the Twelve deities but I think there's room to be extremely suspicious about a pair being missed. Like possibly in a Shadowbringers spoilers-way.

[Dezarc]

Can confirm lorebook has hells and heavens ascribed to two deities each, matched in turn to elements. Halone and Menphina rule the heaven and hell of ice, Nald'Thal and Azemya rule the heaven and hell of fire, etc. etc. It is remarkably detailed.

I also wanna mention, Sephirot's theme mentions seven hells and seven heavens. We know there are the Twelve deities but I think there's room to be extremely suspicious about a pair being missed. Like possibly in a Shadowbringers spoilers-way.

on the same page i quoted it says "They proceeded to create the firmament, the result being six astrally aligned heavens aspected to each of the six elements, and a final seventh heaven to rule them all. However, a residual product of these heavens were six similarly aspected hells, ruled by an all-encompassing, umbrally aligned seventh hell."

[Cilia]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but...

When discussing the pixies' childlike temperaments, Alphinaud (I believe) conjectures that souls may not dissolve in the Lifestream, but still exist as independent packets. This is why pixies are the reincarnated souls of children - their existence persists in the Lifestream until they are reborn. Handily enough, this also explains doppelgangers on the First - Gerolt's doppelganger just has another piece of his otherwise fragmented soul, which is why they are for all intents and purposes the exact same person. (His First counterpart just has long flowing hair instead of being bald.)

It's not like this is a new concept for Final Fantasy, either - it's possible to persist in the Lifestream of VII with a strong emotion, though this tends to degrade the personality of those who do so. President Shinra and Septhiroth both manage it through greed and hatred, respectively.

The events in Amaurot suggest the Warrior of Light / Darkness is the reincarnated soul of an ancient Ascian - Emet-Selch's good friend Hythlodaeus no less - and that their overwhelming strength is owed to them having the soul fragments of their other selves that were rejoined through the Ascians' machinations. Ardbert was their First counterpart, who seems to willingly merge with the Warrior of [Light / Darkness] to help stave off the corruption from the Lightwardens' power until it's used to finish off Hades.

[dragoelete]

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but...

It's not like this is a new concept for Final Fantasy, either - it's possible to persist in the Lifestream of VII with a strong emotion, though this tends to degrade the personality of those who do so. President Shinra and Septhiroth both manage it through greed and hatred, respectively.

i would like to mention that...

sephiroth according to ffvii lore didnt persist through hatred in the lifestream the reason he always comes back is that the lifestream sees him as an alien existance therefor it cannot absorb him

[Enkidoh]

i would like to mention that...

sephiroth according to ffvii lore didnt persist through hatred in the lifestream the reason he always comes back is that the lifestream sees him as an alien existance therefor it cannot absorb him

Not just that,

I'm pretty certain that he refused to diffuse into the Lifestream simply because his will was too strong. His Jenova infusion indeed probably did not help though.

As for President Shinra living on after death, ignore what was said in The Maiden Who Wandered the Planet, as it's not actually canon (it's just a glorified fanfic that was licenced by Square without actually being officially endorsed as canon by them) - the original game or FFVII AC pretty much never touched on what happened to the President's soul after Sephiroth did him in, it's safe to assume he returned to the Planet as normal. But anyway, I digress...

Getting back onto FFXIV, it seems that in some cases, the soul may not necessarily return to Hydaelyn after death, but instead exist in a kind of purgatory state - this is the only explanation as to why numerous enemies that fell to our blade throughout ARR's story show up posthumously in the appropriately named Palace of the Dead (Teledji-Adeledji being one of the more infamous inhabitants), just so you can have the satisfaction of killing them again. Given that all those found in there met sudden and violent ends, it's possible that the old ghost-story trope of 'unfinished business' may apply there, but it's all very murky.

[Cilia]

Erm...

If you want to take Maiden Who Travels the Planet as non-canon (and that's fair), Sephiroth is still an example of someone persisting in the Lifestream through negative emotion / willpower. He had to focus on his hatred of Cloud to do it, though, which is why his Remnants in Advent Children all possess just small aspects of his personality and why instead of finishing his plan upon resurrection he opts to have a swordfight with Cloud instead of just retreating to fulfill his ambitions.

Anyway, I digress. The point is that souls persisting in the Lifestream isn't unprecedented, it's just extremely uncommon, and it's important to remember that XIV takes place in its own universe; ergo something being nearly impossible in another universe could be easy or commonplace. If Alphinaud is right and pixies are the reincarnated souls of children, then everything regarding metaphysics as explained / implied in Shadowbringers does make sense - just the question of when and why souls reincarnate isn't explained. (EDIT: If Hydaelyn has usurped Zodiark's position as the "will of the star" and has control over the Lifestream, it's likely at her discretion.)

People die and return to the Lifestream, but their souls may remain intact until they reincarnate. When they do, though, they don't have the memories of their past lives... it's a lot like IX's metaphysics, just with definite reincarnation added on.