RDM thoughts and tuning needed

[Archwizard]

The melee combo isn't meant to be competing around 8 Reprises, since it refunds 35 of the 160 mana spent on it, leaving it at an effective cost of 125 mana. The melee combo is competing with 6.25 Reprises, which means that even at 300 potency Reprise is still a pretty big loss over the melee combo.

Murky waters there. Yes, it is a lower effective cost, but you still need that 160 mana to cast it in the first place, which is why I would argue the 7/28 Mana returned is part of the combo's damage output rather than its cost input.

And hey, I'm not saying "Oh well they can't buff it because it would be stronger than the combo", just that it wouldn't surprise me if that was the grounds for their logic given the very specific number chosen. I simply pointed out that even by that logic, if I'm right about the motivation which I very much could be wrong, there could still be allowances made for a worthwhile form of Reprise.

[Leidiriv]

Murky waters there. Yes, it is a lower effective cost, but you still need that 160 mana to cast it in the first place, which is why I would argue the 7/28 Mana returned is part of the combo's damage output rather than its cost input.

And hey, I'm not saying "Oh well they can't buff it because it would be stronger than the combo", just that it wouldn't surprise me if that was the grounds for their logic given the very specific number chosen. I simply pointed out that even by that logic, if I'm right about the motivation which I very much could be wrong, there could still be allowances made for a worthwhile form of Reprise.

The problem with saying that it still costs 160 is that in every instance, the 35 is generated for you. There's no scenario, barring the start of a fight (which is solved by Manafication anyway) where you actually have to generate the 80/80 the combo costs. The 35 may not be part of the cost input for the current combo, but it absolutely is for the NEXT combo.

And yeah, I am willing to bet that Reprise was originally designed by someone who works on RDM extensively, then someone who doesn't work on RDM as much saw the raw potency and was basically like "hey, 8 of that is stronger than the melee combo, fix it". I'm just hoping it gets brought back to where it's supposed to be, because as it stands it's a very fun button to use and WOULD fit perfectly in the 120s rotation, but it feels terrible having Moulinet be more efficient than it.

[ArniQQ]

Red Mage is pretty bad at the moment. They are the 3rd lowest dps behind Dancer and Ninja. Ninja has Trick Attack, and Dancer's utility is beyond everything else in this game. Red Mage's MP problems makes him / her bad at it's only niche; res bitch for progression raiding.


I'm sorry to day, but I think Red Mage is currently the worst DPS class, and the worst class in the game along with Astro.

[SaberMaxwell]

Red Mage is pretty bad at the moment. They are the 3rd lowest dps behind Dancer and Ninja. Ninja has Trick Attack, and Dancer's utility is beyond everything else in this game. Red Mage's MP problems makes him / her bad at it's only niche; res bitch for progression raiding.


I'm sorry to day, but I think Red Mage is currently the worst DPS class, and the worst class in the game along with Astro.

Not even really a very good res mage. My RDM taps out of MP usually by second or third raise.

[XiXiQ]

I like what they've done with RDM just fine, my main concern is with the MP as well. Particularly with long fights, you are barely holding on even using mana regen. Die just after pressing that button and it's very awkward. Too many times I've automatically gone to raise a downed healer, and not enough MP in the tank. I'm OK with the displacement/engagement thing, with just displacement there were plenty of times it had to be dropped just to stop you landing in crap or pinging over the edge. It would also be nice to be able to use corps-a-corps on an ally to get out of tight spots. (minus the damage of course haha). And yes, a little more grunt for the DPS would be perfect.

[Typhoria]

Red Mage is pretty bad at the moment. They are the 3rd lowest dps behind Dancer and Ninja. Ninja has Trick Attack, and Dancer's utility is beyond everything else in this game. Red Mage's MP problems makes him / her bad at it's only niche; res bitch for progression raiding.


I'm sorry to day, but I think Red Mage is currently the worst DPS class, and the worst class in the game along with Astro.

Can't even be a dedicated rezzer currently. Basically we just offer embolden, which weighted against SMN is nothing.

[Leidiriv]

I dunno what you guys are on about, but Embolden offers a lot of damage to the group. All the big damage is frontloaded into the first 2 tiers of the buff, which of course matches up with Trick Attack's duration. Unless y'all are lining it up so the 4% and 2% windows are what you get in Trick, it gives the group way more damage than the neutered Devotion.

[Maero]

Aside from healers (looking at you sch) no other jobs have mana issues that i am aware of.
Red Mage was by no means at the top so why have they made it so mana starved i have to wonder?
Granted this expansion will be the first time i will not be a caster main i started back on Red Mage and even with not raising people Lucid does not suffice i think.
Savage raids are not even out can not imagine it be better if they do not fix things

I have read a post someone made i believe in another thread that stated Red Mage is fine and does or should not run out of mana, that is so very false. Must not be doing actual dps rotation..

[Duskane]

Manafiction buff really needs to be stronger or extend the duration 5% every 110 seconds for only 10 seconds is really mediocre

i would understand reprise as a quick mana dump if it didn't eat up a dual cast and had something else to it besides Verscathe

Contre strix + aoe trait at 78 really should have really what these should have been from beginning not a trait at 78

engagement cool idea just really needed to match displacement in potency not really be a gamble for DPS in some arenas, looks nice though

leveling RDM 72-78 skills and traits just feel like a joke its like the exact opposite of samurai in that regards
amazing skills and traits 72-78 mediocre skill at 80

new Aoe is nice and Scortch is a great skill


also from other about MP thread

really all they would have to do is either
let manafiction give us some MP
or
Melee combo+moulinet gives us MP

all done frequently enough that + lucid really shouldn't be much of a MP issue

[Jonnycbad]

engagement cool idea just really needed to match displacement in potency not really be a gamble for DPS in some arenas, looks nice though

Yeah but Engagement can be double weaved, and weaved mid-melee combo. If you only use Engagement, you get more uses out of it then Displacement since you wouldn't need to delay it till an opportune moment. That's why it's weaker. You get more casts out of it than Displacement,