Shadowbringers - How can we fix this?

[DynnDiablos]

Some of the changes were necessary. As someone who mains MCH, it just wasn't working well. The new actions and rotation, are way better. Sometimes overly complicated isn't needed.

[Skyclaw726]

Maybe if the tanks stopped pulling everything i can DPS more. As it stands since every tank mega pulls i have to use absolutely everything just to keep them alive, i would LOOOOVE to throw out a Holy or two but as a healer my number one duty is to keep everyone alive. If that means it takes a bit longer to beat trash or a boss then so be it.

[PretzJG]

Maybe if the tanks stopped pulling everything i can DPS more. As it stands since every tank mega pulls i have to use absolutely everything just to keep them alive, i would LOOOOVE to throw out a Holy or two but as a healer my number one duty is to keep everyone alive. If that means it takes a bit longer to beat trash or a boss then so be it.

This, 1000000% this, I play as all 3 roles, I have my Tank, my Healer, and a few DPS I like to play as, I switch them around so I can keep a good idea on each role's view of a dungeon/trial/boss/etc. I HATE being a healer when I get a tank that wants to pull a group of 4 with a group of 5 and then try and grab the patrol of 2 as well and then bitches cause he dies cause he went Sprinting ahead of me out of my range. Sorry but the dungeons shouldn't be Mega-Pull to the boss and then fight the boss, it's suppose to be set to do each pull in it's set group. And I get the same hate as a DPS when the tank does it that way as well, here I am spamming my AOE rotation till I'm blue in the face and then seeing all the mobs jump to me after the tank dies. This is especially bad when with a Gunbreaker as they have a skill that apparently drops 90% or more of their HP so I go into panic mode thinking they are about to die, and sometimes they do.

[Deceptus]

Maybe if the tanks stopped pulling everything i can DPS more. As it stands since every tank mega pulls i have to use absolutely everything just to keep them alive, i would LOOOOVE to throw out a Holy or two but as a healer my number one duty is to keep everyone alive. If that means it takes a bit longer to beat trash or a boss then so be it.

Unless you're a WHM, it's better for the tank to pull big and let the dps do their jobs since SCH/AST aoe isn't much to speak of.

[Priya]

I see no problems with healers being made to heal more as long as the developers create fight mechanics to compensate; this is a trinity mmo after all. By that I mean there should not be these peaks and valleys in raid/tank damage where healers can get everyone up and then spend a while dps'ing before the next damaging mechanic; if there is not more persistent healing needed, I can understand being upset with the changes. Healers DPS while healing in every trinity MMO, but this is the only one that typically behaves more like a non-trinity.

[Pokefan5]

I see no problems with healers being made to heal more as long as the developers create fight mechanics to compensate; this is a trinity mmo after all. By that I mean there should not be these peaks and valleys in raid/tank damage where healers can get everyone up and then spend a while dps'ing before the next damaging mechanic; if there is not more persistent healing needed, I can understand being upset with the changes. Healers DPS while healing in every trinity MMO, but this is the only one that typically behaves more like a non-trinity.

The thing is, I did the new EX trials and I still spend most of my time doing DPS, throw a oGCD here shield the tank there, back to glare I go. And it's not like I'm giving my co-healer hell by not healing, they spend just as much time as me doing DPS. That said I'm not even using my full healing toolkit for the most part, because the damage just doesn't call for it.

[Priya]

The thing is, I did the new EX trials and I still spend most of my time doing DPS, throw a oGCD here shield the tank there, back to glare I go. And it's not like I'm giving my co-healer hell by not healing, they spend just as much time as me doing DPS. That said I'm not even using my full healing toolkit for the most part, because the damage just doesn't call for it.

Yeah, it's certainly on SE to create an environment that requires the healing kits they're creating. They tend to do a lot of pass/fail one-shot mechanics, and boss auto-attacks that barely hurt. If they want to steer everyone away from healers being a "dps who occasionally heals," they need to create fights that warrant it.

[Varushkin]

The thing is, I did the new EX trials and I still spend most of my time doing DPS, throw a oGCD here shield the tank there, back to glare I go. And it's not like I'm giving my co-healer hell by not healing, they spend just as much time as me doing DPS. That said I'm not even using my full healing toolkit for the most part, because the damage just doesn't call for it.

I recently watched a video of someone going over each of the Spells and Abilities and he agrees with you as I do. There are too many healing abilities not just on SCH but WHM as well. This was pointed out by someone else in this thread where they said that they didn't even use all of their healing abilities in the latest EX trials. I believe it's the person that I'm quoting as well.

[Varushkin]

Some of you all are starting to point out some of the finer points where this discussion is concerned.

I as a player want to be engaged no matter what I'm doing. Healing, Tanking, DPSing it's all the same to me and all of it I push as hard as I can. Due to being exposed to the higher level of play at the end of 2.0-4.0 I have developed a certain mentality. That mentality is demonstrated even when I'm doing those dungeons I'm examining every part of it. Where can I heal, where can I get away with standing in an AoE to slide cast one last Ruin or Fire I. Boss is about to do something big ok treat it like the ultimate attack from <insert any primal fight here> throw down Sacred Soil use shields something to mitigate the incoming damage.

I've said it before and I'll say it again if you are the kind of player that doesn't want to DPS as a healer or tank then that's fine. Make sure that you are still fulfilling your job with it's utility. In regards to some of the responses concerning "older" content I say this. When the devs take away some of the things that we've had before it feels almost unbearably boring. As a Scholar I used to be able to apply my dots bane keep those dots up while healing the party all the while spamming my oGCDs inbetween to keep things rolling smoothly. Since they've taken that away from us I'm standing there waiting for damage to come out... yay... I feel that the older content as we are pushing forward with all of the newer stuff is neglected severely. Sure it's not supposed to be complex and it's kind of there to show you what the rest of the game has in store for you as a new or returning player.

Look at it like this. Take the changes made to surecast and I'm sure the other anti-knockback abilities. Fights like Shinryu that almost require you to use such abilities would now feel nearly impossible to do effectively. 2 mins? You'd barely be able to get it back up before here comes the next tidal wave. All of this is of course if your are syncing the content down. Oh right who in the world would do that? I know that I personally would just to teach whoever wanted to learn that fight.

I'm trying really hard to not sink to the level of saying "git gud". That statement or retort doesn't do anyone any good if you can't simply take just a little time and explain a fight or how a class/job plays. I won't say that the idea of teaching newer players falls solely on the shoulders of Mentors. I do however feel like it is the responsibility of those players who have experienced the content to educate the other players that have not. Those with discord servers and those with discord accounts should and probably are actively using it to help reduce the walls of text when trying to explain something.

So here's the question. What can we suggest to the devs to help make the most content feel more engaging at any level?

[Varushkin]

Another thing that I've stated before is that I've taken the time to actively teach other players how things work on every last one of their classes. Why because I see them not utilizing even half of what they have.

Other player: Hey I want to tank as a Paladin with you.
Myself: Ok let's see how you do.
Myself: calls out for Divine Veil/Shake it off or something else...
Other player: doesn't do it...
30 mins later
Other player: OOOOH THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!
Myself: double-face palm with a long sigh...

<insert this wherever> I found the cap of how many characters these post can have lol.