I Don't Understand the Light Theme

[Arrhin]

Perhaps... but they could possibly release expansions that are all elemental based- and I am hoping they really expand the limits of what elemental means beyond the cliche.

I really miss the elemental stuff from say, FFVII. Equip the right gear, heal yerself with FIRE!! Attack the boss with the wrong element...oops, you healed em,...better remeld or re equip! I think stuff like that would be interestin. It seems like they tried it a bit in Eureka...but..it's...Eureka.

[Dyvid]

I am really enjoying SHB... but I am having trouble understanding what they are doing with the light theme.

No spoilers, I just don't get the "Forgiven" tag on monsters... or the "Sin Eater" taxonomy.

It seems like they are confusing elemental light and religion.... and it is confusing to me.

I don't understand why instead of this they aren't using names like "radiant" and "luminous".

To me, they seem to be confusing "holy" and elemental light, so there is this strange quasi religious connotation to stuff.


It just feels like the game is borrowing heavily from D&D on the theme without any of the context. Maybe it's just me lol.... but I also don't want the same to happen with darkness/shade in a future expansion where they have some kid of evil connotation. I was never comfortable with them implying that shade/dark was bad and I don't want that to be a future theme. As both an AST and as someone that happens to love the nighttime and sleep, I happen to feel like darkness can be comforting, relaxing, and peaceful.

Op, I think it's just you. We have Voidsent which are being from the world that was swallowed up by Darkness but did you complain about them looking like demons? Light, dark, it doesn't matter because too much in abundance in this game is harmful. Heavensward dealt with pseudo religious dogma. SHB is just a world devoured by primordial light element, no real religion tone too it other than what you read into it.

[Uielyave]

Perhaps it is merely falling under association. We Associate Light with things such as Doves, white, feathers and "Holy" aspects. The Literal flood of "Light" to the first shard is the polar opposite of the "Darkness" for ours and our "Void Sent" Monsters, which have Darkness themes such as Bat wings, the color Black and creepy or unsettling imagery.

Its just falling under Association of the aspects of "Light" and "Darkness" and what symbolic images those bring about.

[Enkidoh]

I really miss the elemental stuff from say, FFVII. Equip the right gear, heal yerself with FIRE!! Attack the boss with the wrong element...oops, you healed em,...better remeld or re equip! I think stuff like that would be interestin. It seems like they tried it a bit in Eureka...but..it's...Eureka.

They abolished it because Yoshi did not want a repeat of FFXI where there was 'Job favouritism' of players only taking Jobs like BLM for instance into dungeons and boss fights to use a certain elemental spell that the enemy was weak against (at the exclusion of other Jobs that couldn't use attacks that exploited elemental weaknesses), what were known as 'manaburn parties' (FFXI was notorious for exploits like that).

This is also why FFXIV 1.0 CNJ (who was the original elemental spellcaster) lost Thunder, Ice and Fire spells which were given to THM (the original version actually involved casting spells on the umbral and astral alignments: aka 'dark' and 'light'). Yoshi simply does not want players excluding each other from content based on their Jobs/classes, he wants everyone to have an equal chance gameplay wise.

Accordingly even though spells seem to have elemental names, gameplay wise they have none - all spells are 'typeless' as far as damage goes, so you can throw Fire spells aplenty at Ifrit for instance and it will still hurt him. It's simplifying battle mechanics, but remembering what FFXI was like, losing the elemental wheel is a small price to pay for much smoother combat and less 'meta Job' nonsense from other players.

As for the 'light apocalypse' theme of SHB, that's actually a rather common trope in fiction nowadays (it's essentially for the same reasons as to why there is increasingly in fiction a tendency to see so-called 'dark' or 'evil' characters in a more positive, or at the very least, sympathetic, light (no pun intended)). It's more now instead of the philosophical notions of 'light=good' and 'dark=evil', you can have 'good light', 'evil light', 'good darkness' and 'evil darkness', with SHB's story being very much having to become 'good darkness' in order to banish 'evil light'. Like a fire can bring warmth and light, but it can also burn and destroy, in the same way in the First the light has become too searing, too powerful and destroys more than it helps and becomes just as bad as the very darkness that is banishes.

At least, that's how I interpreted it. Or SE is just thumbing their noses at the alignment chart.

[Daralii]

I really miss the elemental stuff from say, FFVII. Equip the right gear, heal yerself with FIRE!! Attack the boss with the wrong element...oops, you healed em,...better remeld or re equip! I think stuff like that would be interestin. It seems like they tried it a bit in Eureka...but..it's...Eureka.

Mechanics like that existed in 1.0, but with how things changed to move it away from what was effectively a terrible XI remake, I'm sure you can see why they were left in the dust.

[Felis]

Mechanics like that existed in 1.0, but with how things changed to move it away from what was effectively a terrible XI remake, I'm sure you can see why they were left in the dust.

Was not possible in 1.0, too
You did less dmg with a fire spell on an fire enemy (i think 75% dmg), but still dmg. You didn't heal with fire, regardless of enemy type or equipment.

[Edax]

I am really enjoying SHB... but I am having trouble understanding what they are doing with the light theme.

No spoilers, I just don't get the "Forgiven" tag on monsters... or the "Sin Eater" taxonomy.

It seems like they are confusing elemental light and religion.... and it is confusing to me.

I don't understand why instead of this they aren't using names like "radiant" and "luminous".

To me, they seem to be confusing "holy" and elemental light, so there is this strange quasi religious connotation to stuff.

Maybe I am not far enough along in the story and they fix this- but I always loved how Secret of Mana kept light and dark as elements and left out that religious stuff.

Hopefully, those of you who are over achievers and finished the MSQ can let me know if it straightens out.... I really like the elemental concept and love the idea that elements are neutral primordial forces. This language and connotation might just be a localization issue.

It just feels like the game is borrowing heavily from D&D on the theme without any of the context. Maybe it's just me lol.... but I also don't want the same to happen with darkness/shade in a future expansion where they have some kid of evil connotation. I was never comfortable with them implying that shade/dark was bad and I don't want that to be a future theme. As both an AST and as someone that happens to love the nighttime and sleep, I happen to feel like darkness can be comforting, relaxing, and peaceful.

I guess you could draw a parallel from the Flood of Light and Genesis Flood that was Holy in nature. But would not both things be murderous and horrifying to the people of the world?

[ScarboroughFairy]

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...LightIsNotGood

We associate light with purity and goodness, which is why the epithets are the way they are. The naming conventions are intentional misnomers. There are some religious nods in the Sin Eater designs. It was only some few centuries ago where people started depicting angels as these beautiful humanoid creatures that offer comfort and/or aid, but their original conceptions were godsdamned terrifying. One Biblical story has an angel descending from heaven and immediately asking people to "fear not/be not afraid". Why? Because angels are actually supposed to be hideous.

To digress from that point, this is just an inversion of the "dark is bad" trope. The Warrior of Darkness did mention that light and dark are two sides of the same coin and that a balance is required. With that in mind, it only makes sense that the cauterizing power of light is just as destructive as the crushing depths of darkness.

[Orbus]

Was not possible in 1.0, too
You did less dmg with a fire spell on an fire enemy (i think 75% dmg), but still dmg. You didn't heal with fire, regardless of enemy type or equipment.

Well it would be broken in an mmo if you could raise an elemental resistance enough to not just be immune to something but even heal off it.
Imagine if you could cheese fights like ifrit extreme or anything involving bombs cause someone overmelded fire resist materia to the extreme.

[ApolloGenX]

I should say that when I said religious themes- I was really referring to style, not story.

Maybe it is just me... I just came back from Europe, where we saw so many churches.... the abundance of feathers and angelic creatures just reminds me of recurring religious iconography. In any case, the style seems to bend more toward light as a concept and less toward light as an element, imo.