What have you done?

[Inuk9]

PPL don't only hate new DRK, they want a change and the best way to archive that is making noise in the forum, wich is for feedback purposes so it doesn't matter how annoying is for some of you but we aren't going to stop, we want out fav job being fun again like it was before.

But Im loving the new DRK

Especially the new opener, you need to double weave a lot of stuff. So busy <3

[Zhamkyong]

PPL don\\'t only hate new DRK, they want a change and the best way to archive that is making noise in the forum, wich is for feedback purposes so it doesn\\'t matter how annoying is for some of you but we aren\\'t going to stop, we want out fav job being fun again like it was before.

It would be great if people could stop claiming what they don't know. No, I don't want the new DRK to change. No I do not hate it. At best I can understand if it needs a tweak here and there, but not another rework.

Before you claim 'people hate it' go in game livestream and make a survey to every player connected. Then you might start talking that way.

[Zhamkyong]

Then please point those sources so we can see them. And even if you do, it will no be valid for the same reason: we don't know the number of players in game who like the changes and those who not. Supporting yourself in social media or a fc I cannot talk with to exchange opinions is the same as posting a photo of a snowing winter to claim that the climate change is not a real problem.

[Lyth]

There are only so many ways that you can do a burst dps cooldown. People seem to be also complaining that No Mercy is essentially Fight or Flight. Wildfire is a creative alternative that we're yet to see on a tank, but it's also an example of what happens when you get too creative.

You still have to manage your oGCD usage under Delirium. The setup for the windows in which Blood Weapon, Delirium, and Living Shadow all sync up tend to be pretty interesting from a resource management perspective.

[Kaozurei]

I haven't gotten around to leveling DRK on my account yet, but I was playing with it at a friend's place who has it at 80 already and even though Living Shadow is just a glorified dot I find it pretty fun at level cap. Considering it went from "spam dark arts on these specific skills all the time then use blood weapon for more MP" to actually planning cooldowns and managing MP to have enough for TBN for tankbuster mitigation and to be able to weave in as many edges during delirium for buff windows, I'd say ShB DRK has taken a step in the right direction and I'm pretty excited to level it once I'm done with GNB.

They finally got a burst phase which they sorely lacked back in 4.0 for TA windows (assuming TA remains a thing in optimized raids.). Sure, it could use a bit more tweaking here and there, delirium is just a worse IR and I can understand that upsets some people but the overall gameplay for DRK is fairly different than WAR's, even if they do share one (technically two) similar skills. I mean GNB basically just has a flat out worse Fight of Flight but I haven't seen anyone complain about that and it's still really fun to play.

[Nobuyuki_Sanada]

Pretending like holding aggro was hard pre shadowbringers is getting really annoying. You were not special just because you stance danced, hell your average ok tank was doing that in the end of stormblood. Hitting the extra 3 buttons didnt make you skilled it was just tedious. The aggro changes in shadowbringers raises the floor and doesn't affect the skill ceiling too much. If you want to have every class be viable in all scenarios then every class has to have similiar toolkits, thats just a simple reality. Everyone is ok with classes being different until it's their class that can't compete because it is missing tools the other classes have.

[EpicOverlord85]

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back

[Kaozurei]

I honestly am struggling to even play the game anymore after the DRK and SCH reworks. I keep seeing people talk about how fun DRK is now, but at 76 I’m just not seeing what they are apparently. Spamming 1-2-3 over and over and over again then spamming 4 for 10 seconds every 80 seconds just isn’t engaging to me. We don’t have to monitor our aggro or MP reserves anymore due to how easy both are now (look I’m not saying it was hard to gain aggro before, but they somehow made it even easier) and our attacking speed has been slowed to crawl, what exactly am I supposed to get excited about? There’s nothing to mange, no reason to think, hell the only reason Dark side falls off occasionally is because I staring spacing out due to our shallow combo. I just want HW DRK back

I didn't get too far into DRK back in HW, so odds are that most people who say ShB DRK is fun are in the same boat I am and started playing it in 4.0. Back then, DRK was still all about spamming 1-2-3 and add the occasional DA to souleater and CnS (let's face it, nobody used their enmity combo after the very first one at the start of a fight). It felt fast paced but only because of Blood Weapon and constant DA weaving and MP management was a joke with how easy it was to generate. I played DRK for the majority of SB before switching to WAR near the end, DRK just began feeling more tedious than fun to me.

Now in ShB, I actually enjoy it quite a bit more. MP is more difficult to generate so maximizing damage output means possibly sacrificing a TBN cast for an extra edge of shadow within a buff window, building up MP reserves to weave them in alongside Bloodspiller while having basically the strongest DoT in the game in the form of Living Shadow. It's still fairly clunky and it does feel slow both due to the lack of Blood Weapon's haste buff and the fact you're no longer weaving DA every other skill, but there's still complexity and fun to be had in optimizing damage potential without sacrificing too much of their survivability. That's just how it feels for me, in any case.

[EpicOverlord85]

And yet here we are still spamming 1-2-3 just without DA. Instead of giving something interesting to do Square instead doubled down on the boring design. MP management was way easier than it was in HW sure, but you still had to be careful about what you were spamming as it was still easy to bottom out your magic. Killing our haste buff with blood weapon was also a terrible idea.

MP is harder to generate, but we barely have anything to spend it on. As long as you keep at least 6,000 MP in reserve you can basically spam whatever you want when it comes to the shadow moves and still easily have enough to use TBN when necessary. We basically have nothing to manage anymore other than dark side which it ridiculously easy to keep up. One combo, nothing to manage, a shallow tool kit, I’m just not seeing the complexity you’re referring to.

[Freyyy]

MP is harder to generate, but we barely have anything to spend it on. As long as you keep at least 6,000 MP in reserve you can basically spam whatever you want when it comes to the shadow moves and still easily have enough to use TBN when necessary. We basically have nothing to manage anymore other than dark side which it ridiculously easy to keep up. One combo, nothing to manage, a shallow tool kit, I’m just not seeing the complexity you’re referring to.

Keeping 6000 MP in order to use EoS/FoS and still having enough for TBN in case of a need is MP management. HW was very close to that. You usually kept enough MP so that your next DA use wouldn't put you at risk of losing Darkside because 0 MP. Also, you can hardly "spam" anything with 6000MP. You use Edge then TBN, it's not spamming. Hell, even using Edge twice in a row isn't spamming. Do you know what spamming is ? Delirium/Inner Release/Requiescat windows.

I think that keeping Darkside wasn't intended to be a deep mechanic to begin with in ShB. They just reverted it back to HW's state but in a different way. In SB you didn't have to think about Darkside at all, it was just toggle and forget. In HW you used to have to not brainlessly use your MP to prevent going down to near 0 and losing Darkside due to MP drain. Now Darkside still costs MP, but instead of being over time, it's kept up when you actively use an MP-costing ability to do so. So instead of having to prevent MP going down to 0, you now have to prevent having the specific Darkside timer going down to 0, using MP to do so. Both are easy and not deep. Both are just about using MP correctly. Did it need that fancy new gauge timer ? No, I agree.