Not impressed with the skill changes

[Millybonk]

While the expansion itself seems amazing, they definitely over simplified the jobs. Likee they feel like we can't handle what we had. Healers had tons of skills removed. Tanks were the worst. It's like they said "oh you've been riding bikes for 10 years? Well let's force you to use training wheels so you don't definitely can't mess up."

That's actually a really good analogy:
- Removal of abilities to lessen the impact of people not being able to hit them in the correct sequence/being overwhelmed when having "too many" buttons/not wanting to think when playing
- As a result a lowered skill ceiling so everyone can feel proud getting results by having fewer buttons to hit/less decision to make

Though I would phrase the analogy more sharply:
It's like SQ saw someone being unable to ride their bike/unable to ride it for a prolonged period of time, and instead of giving him additional training so he can join his buddies on long bike rides, now everyone has to use training bikes so those few and future new riders won't feel "left behind".

[Yamr3]

I actually like the removal of TP and the way WHM and SAM play in ShB....

[Melichoir]

So, it read pretty bad in theory, but it turns out it really is not great. XD

Dark Knight is boring as Hell at level 64; it's been way oversimplified and I think it's kind of bad that their showcased class is not so hot right now.

AST not only lost the strategic diversity of its cards (spread no longer a thing because the cards no longer have timers, royal road no long er a thing, and all of the cards being for DPS boosting), but we lost some of our other strategical skills like our aoe stun and our time dilation. On top of that, the cards became inefficient by not having the draw card also be the play card - we now have a separate skill for that.

Bard lost support skills. I expected to see the TP refresh gone, but MP is still in play so why did we lose our MP song? Along with foe requiem (the only way we use our MP), some of our song effects, palisade, et cetera. These are all used and useful skills and could still be used. I was trying DNC (along with everyone else) in alliance, and there were times where I was like "oh! I wish I was playing as BRD to MP refresh for the healer that just revived," for example.

I just don't really get what the devs were thinking. I don't get why they removed TP because managing that in itself as a tank or DPS was fun; now it's just a DPSing shit fest with no reservation. I expected there to be changes with skills because there is every time, but this was definitely the worst one yet.

So heres my pennies:

The DRK changes specifically have simplified the class, and it does take some time to get used to. I do feel half the time Im just kind fo 'waiting' to do something, so spamming 1-2-3 as the filler can become a tad tedious. However, what Ive been noticing is that the current changes have forced me to re-evaluate some of the habits from SB. While bosses arent outright cleaving me in two, if Im not careful about how Im managing my mana (it's really easy to overspend on EoD, FoD) I wont have what I need for TBN. This, at sub 80 levels probably wont be an issue. Youll be fine as long as your healer is decent, but Im gonna hazard that at Expert and Savage, its gonna be more a problem if they require double cooldowns. In that case, not overspending on EoD and the like is gonna be necessary cause you wont be getting mana back as fast as it used too (or that is how it feels.) The resource feels more scarce, despite using less skills.

From observing FC mates and friends play - The mana differences is what is gonna be important to note. While BRD lost MP dance and the like, thats probably for the best. Given how the combat system is working currently, if youre being super dumb about skill usage as a caster, youre gonna go OoM. And in relation to how other classes are operating their role, you can also go OoM faster. Mana regeneration abilities like the MP song would definitely be OP in the current environment, forcing ranged classes to be mandatory due to how powerful that would be. With the goal to take away focus from 'mandatory roles', you cant have Bards retaining tactician and Refresh.

While thats my personal observations, my disagreement here with the OP is (outside of AST, but Ive gone over that issue in length already) the final point. TP was never a management issue with Melee except under specific circumstances. Those being when spamming AoE abilities, and in specific speed-meme builds. It was, for all intensive purposes, a useless resource. So long as you did proper rotations, you would NEVER run out of TP.

Gauging the fights ive been into thus far, however, Im somewhat fine wtih the changes. I think the "Oh these are the worst things ever" is, at this time, hyperbolic. This isnt the worst changes. Different, yes, and maybe a problem. But if encounter design increases in complexity (which is what Ive seen so far), Im fine with the changes. While not as complex as it was in SB, and even HW, it's not bad. There is a big important silver lining to this: The simplification will really point out who is bad at playing the game and who isnt. Before, players could argue "oh the opener is to complex" or other excuses, but how simplified its become will mean if you cant do decent damage + boss mechanics, then that is totally on you. Thats why the Devs specifically stated that "Class effectiveness is dependant on the player." It may be absurd, but with the changes, its gonna be harder to say x class sucks. In any case, Im having fun with the content, and Im feeling that given time, the class changes will feel better. So I have no worries about it.

[disturbedcobra]

I've only had the chance to play on my PLD all weekend and I really enjoy the changes that have come of it. Free AOE spams and additioanl Magics to use while holding aggro which is also much more simplier. With the addition of Promiance & Holy Circle(PLDs Holy without the stun) our AOE has gone through the roof. Then there's Atonement and Confiteor. Both welcome additions. Oh and don't forget the additional MP regen we get now so more spells ^^

[Melichoir]

While the expansion itself seems amazing, they definitely over simplified the jobs. Likee they feel like we can't handle what we had. Healers had tons of skills removed. Tanks were the worst. It's like they said "oh you've been riding bikes for 10 years? Well let's force you to use training wheels so you don't definitely can't mess up."

Problem is, most people couldnt. It was too difficult for a lot of people to learn even simple openers, let alone manage using cooldowns or keeping buffs up while doing more complex boss mechanics. It's not that they gave us Training wheels cause we could ride the bike. It's that people couldnt be bothered to learn how to ride the bike so instead just kind of scooted around with their feet while the bike was inbetween their legs. They figure atleast with "Training Wheels" youll be riding the bike at least half decently.

Point is they simplified it to the point where if you cant hack it now, you cant blame it on the class being too hard or what not. As I said, Im pretty sure the reason why the Devs said "Class effectiveness is gonna be down to player skill" was specficially because if you cant learn even a more simplified and straightforward system, then its not the game - It's you.