A Message For Yoshi-P

[Valesken]

You’re right, I have a problem with the direction they went with all healers in Shadowbringers, but I just tried WHM today. All 3 healers jobs were fine in SB if you ask me (individually + good synergy between all three). Why remove Aero III anyway, you just use it if you want to... plus it’s not like I’ll leave a party member die to throw in a quick DoT...

[Warkupo]

It feels almost exactly the same.
Instead of casting my two dots I cast one dot.
Instead of casting my aoe I cast my other AOE.
Then I cast broil until my dot is done cooking and I put another dot in the oven.

The biggest adjustment is that you need to use aetherflow to cast heals so you have more juice for damage.

It's exactly as boring as it was before.

[Trunks]

I like how you can remove a third of the buttons we need to press for most of our playtime and the white knights say, "it's exactly the same!"

While we're at it, let's just remove DOTs. It feels exactly the same - just one less button. Just one less button. Every expansion it's just one less button. (Except for the new buttons that you don't ever need to press.)

And no, it does not feel the same. Having to manage two DOTs on separate timers, one with a cast time and one without, is not the same as managing one instant DOT of a longer duration. And then there was Cleric Stance, and lining it up with other raid buffs. It wasn't much, but it was something we could do to be try-hards when the content was not hard.

For a lot of us, White Mage was already on the cusp of being too boring. We said as much when SB came out, and for two years we've been shushed and told to wait for the next expansion, hoping against hope that they'd do something to make up for the disasters of SB-launch WHM and SCH. Here we are. With ShB, they gave both Jobs a good, hard shove off the cliff.

[Warkupo]

I like how you can remove a third of the buttons we need to press for most of our playtime and the white knights say, "it's exactly the same!"

While we're at it, let's just remove DOTs. It feels exactly the same - just one less button. Just one less button. Every expansion it's just one less button. (Except for the new buttons that you don't ever need to press.)

And no, it does not feel the same. Having to manage two DOTs on separate timers, one with a cast time and one without, is not the same as managing one instant DOT of a longer duration. And then there was Cleric Stance, and lining it up with other raid buffs. It wasn't much, but it was something we could do to be try-hards when the content was not hard.

For a lot of us, White Mage was already on the cusp of being too boring. We said as much when SB came out, and for two years we've been shushed and told to wait for the next expansion, hoping against hope that they'd do something to make up for the disasters of SB-launch WHM and SCH. Here we are. With ShB, they gave both Jobs a good, hard shove off the cliff.

I'm not surprised you're using "White Knight" as an insult. Scholar has always been the low effort class, so it's not shocking that you're trying to defend it with a low-effort insult.

I don't disagree with your logic as to why healers are boring, but I disagree that this expansion is what made healers boring to DPS; Healers have ALWAYS been boring to DPS. Scholar, more than any other healer, is full of redundant abilities that do near identical things to each other, and it has been amusingly stupid to watch this community try to defend how two buttons with the exact same functionality and near identical duration is somehow more mentally engaging than one button with the exact same functionality and near identical duration.

The biggest adjustment is that Aetherflow can't be used for crappy DPS moves, and you must spend them on healing instead, which is what I assume Scholar is really upset about since they're used to just smashing their forehead on the 1 key and then hitting 2 and 3 every 25ish seconds to justify letting their co-healer and fairy do all the work because they're busy with their complex DPS rotation of three (SOMETIMES FOUR) buttons.

Scholar/Healers are exactly as boring as they always have been and this expansion didn't change that. If nothing else I hope the incessant whining convinces Yoshi-P that healers want a DPS rotation that is slightly more complex than "apply dot(s), shoot magic, repeat"

Since we're on the subject, a pbAOE that applies its full damage immediately is vastly superior to an AOE dot in terms of DPS, and is generally more engaging as well. You have to contend with enemy attacks you normally wouldn't interact with by moving and then staying in melee range, and you're always doing all of your damage for the trash pull instead of losing some percentage of it because the DPS wiped out the group before your piddly DoT could apply its full strength. Nobody is willing to mention this in the sea of "Se ruined mah job!", but it's definitely more interesting and useful than what we had previously.

[Yulja]

I like how you can remove a third of the buttons we need to press for most of our playtime and the white knights say, "it's exactly the same!"

While we're at it, let's just remove DOTs. It feels exactly the same - just one less button. Just one less button. Every expansion it's just one less button. (Except for the new buttons that you don't ever need to press.)

And no, it does not feel the same. Having to manage two DOTs on separate timers, one with a cast time and one without, is not the same as managing one instant DOT of a longer duration. And then there was Cleric Stance, and lining it up with other raid buffs. It wasn't much, but it was something we could do to be try-hards when the content was not hard.

For a lot of us, White Mage was already on the cusp of being too boring. We said as much when SB came out, and for two years we've been shushed and told to wait for the next expansion, hoping against hope that they'd do something to make up for the disasters of SB-launch WHM and SCH. Here we are. With ShB, they gave both Jobs a good, hard shove off the cliff.

This. I can't just understand it anymore. They just killed SCH all in all right? It feels like cutting the fairy away from SCH and even the DPS kit which was more complex. Now SCH do not have anything to do anymore.

Also @Warkupo: Let's be honest please. Having to manage 3 DoTs instead of 1 is just different. You wouldn't say that to a DPS or Tank rotation because the way you are arguing is just not good. In your way of thinking every job and every class you have ever played and ever will play is boring because it is "just button smashing". Healing and controlling DPS(especially DoTs) is complex. It needs time to get used to it. Why else was SCH the hardest job? Why else was AST and SCH harder than WHM? It was not only because of Cards+Fairy, it was because of the DPS management of SCH. I am playing over 15 years and my brother is playing over 16years(healer) and he is saying that this SCH is just way to easy to play and boring and unengaging as hell. SCH feels unfinished, clunky and the identity+core is smashed away.

SE really needs to undo some changes and reverse some prunes. SCH really needs the fairy management and DPS kits back otherwise a lot of SCHs will quit and I am pretty sure of it. When we hit lvl 80 and get proper gear it will be even more boring, let's all just be honest. Hoping for a horrible Tank and horrible DPS to heal sometimes is the same as it was in SB but in SB you had a rotation, you had something to do. Now there is nothing but disappointment.

[Saefinn]

I'll return to my previous comparison from another thread. If they did to a tank, like PLD what they did to healers then this is what their tool kit would look like:

- Keep all of the defensive cooldowns, as a tank's main job is to defend. Keep tank stance because their job is also to keep emnity
- Keep Fast Blade (Based on using Ruin/Stone/Malefic tiers)
- Keep Total Eclipse (Based on using Art of War/Holy/Gravity)
- Keep Goring Blade (Based on using Bio/Aero/Combust tiers)
- Keep 1 other DPS ability, either Circle of Scorn or Riot Blade (based on Ruin II/Assize/Earthly Star)
- Remove everything else

In theory, you don't need anything more on a Paladin for them to fulfill their role, but it'd be boring to play like that.

Funnily back in 2.0 Paladin was pretty bare bones in how it played and was not that far from this, though they still got more. And people said they found Paladin boring (until very late levels). SE has changed that and made it a much more interesting job to play. Then in Stormblood, they made it play really well. I have a PLD to 70 on an alt and love what they ended up doing.

Astrologian, despite any issues people have with how the cards have changed, they still get something to do in their downtime. Though I don't know how AST mains feel about how it is to play.

Scholar and White Mage on the other hand don't. For Scholar it was quite a sudden change, White Mages have been complaining about their job changes for ages, it has been more gradual. In 2.0 the Scholar & White Mage relationship worked really well, the jobs were fun to play with the content we had and were well balanced IMO, as a SCH I actually prefer how SCH played back then (I'd have liked an evolution on the elements I enjoyed). However, it doesn't feel that the jobs have evolved well from there. Scholar kinda avoided some of these issues in the sense they were OP and had a little more do with the downtime.

I think if they gave the healers more to do in their downtime, I think people would be complaining less. Whilst personally I'd have liked Scholar to be a good evolution of how I played it in 2.0, even without that, I don't want it to be boring.

If they don't want us to DPS too much, then give us something else. Scholars could debuff, that'd help with damage mitigation (SCH 2.0 did this, but integrated into their DPS moves, the debuffs weren't great, but better versions could be reimplemented). White Mage could get a mix of buffs & debuffs, because there's ones they could make fit. Maybe their own versions of job mechanics like AST has with cards, BRD has with songs and DNC with dances. After all, healers provide support.

Even if come level 80 the content hits us in the face and eliminates healer downtime (which I highly doubt will) then there's a whole plethora of content out there where they still have healer downtime.

[Adeacia]

I haven't had any issues with WHM yet. I don't get what the complaints are about in terms of healer dps. It's always been using the same few skills over and over. People just like to complain about things.

[Alathon]

I haven't had any issues with WHM yet. I don't get what the complaints are about in terms of healer dps. It's always been using the same few skills over and over. People just like to complain about things.

There's no need to lie. You know full well that Scholar did not have a simple DPS kit before this expansion.

[Adeacia]

There's no need to lie. You know full well that Scholar did not have a simple DPS kit before this expansion.

Last time I played SCH I did a leveling roulette and got a high level dungeon when I didn't even know how to play SCH since I leveled SMN instead and decided to try SCH for the heck of it. Had no idea what I was doing but caught on really fast due to being a WHM main. I really didn't do much for dps since there wasn't much there which is why it was so easy for me to pick up. When people claim that pressing 1 2 3 is SO much different than pressing 1 1 1 to do the exact same thing, I know not to listen to certain complaints.

[Sovasin]

Last time I played SCH I did a leveling roulette and got a high level dungeon when I didn't even know how to play SCH since I leveled SMN instead and decided to try SCH for the heck of it. Had no idea what I was doing but caught on really fast due to being a WHM main. I really didn't do much for dps since there wasn't much there which is why it was so easy for me to pick up. When people claim that pressing 1 2 3 is SO much different than pressing 1 1 1 to do the exact same thing, I know not to listen to certain complaints.

Let me put it this way - do you think SE should consolidate all combos for DPS and tanks into one button, just like in PVP? Instead of having multiple buttons that you press in the same order every time. Consolidate DRG's rotation into one or two buttons that you can press to activate each step of the combo.

Well Yoshi has been asked this question before, and he has said no. Which means that even he thinks that pressing 123 is more complicated than pressing 111.