SCH is trash in its current state

[Semirhage]

You're wrong. The weak dps kit combined with what has been said here is the problem.

Look at WHM at 70, not only feels complete, it's a monster.

SCH dps rotation will change very little once you reach 80, and that's the problem; the healing aspect of the job is fine, I guess you can make that argument, it's the other glaring issues what make it really bad.

God I hate to be one of those "you need to wait until savage" people, but...
lol @ "WHM is overpowered" when it's better than Scholar in dungeons, while Scholar has been the most overpowered job in the game for literal years, and its disgustingly busted oGCD healing kit that has made it a raid staple forever has been buffed even further.

I'm annoyed at SCH's damage lobotomy too, but man does it get hard to feel sorry for Scholar mains when we go through this "UGH my main is just as BORING as those peasant White Mages now, we don't deserve to be boring like they do, we need immediate action!" song and dance because one aspect of Scholar's kit is less fun for five minutes.

Welcome to the snooze zone kids. Scholar isn't "especially afflicted" just because it had further to fall off its high horse.

[Shalan]

.

This kind of attitude you're throwing about is incredibly counterproductive.
Yes, SCH has been the top dog for healing for years now, but that's not fault of the SCH players, it's fully on the devs. Throwing shade SCHs or finding amusement in the situation as a sort of "revenge" comeuppance is just asinine and petty, especially given how on these forums for years healers of all stripes, including SCHs, were pushing for WHM to get some love so they weren't left out so often.

If WHM was in such dire straits and it made you upset, you should be doubly so upset now that other classes are in similar positions - not gleeful or vindictive - because it shows that the dev team hasn't learned from their mistakes and is content to let others wallow about in the same "snooze zone." If you're truly upset about where WHM was, you shouldn't want anyone to be in that zone.

[Enla]

This kind of attitude you're throwing about is incredibly counterproductive.
Yes, SCH has been the top dog for healing for years now, but that's not fault of the SCH players, it's fully on the devs. Throwing shade SCHs or finding amusement in the situation as a sort of "revenge" comeuppance is just asinine and petty, especially given how on these forums for years healers of all stripes, including SCHs, were pushing for WHM to get some love so they weren't left out so often.

If WHM was in such dire straits and it made you upset, you should be doubly so upset now that other classes are in similar positions - not gleeful or vindictive - because it shows that the dev team hasn't learned from their mistakes and is content to let others wallow about in the same "snooze zone." If you're truly upset about where WHM was, you shouldn't want anyone to be in that zone.

Not only that but if 4.0 is any indication it's not going to last. We're going to be buffed /again/ then overbuffed /AGAIN/ because SE lacks the ability to put in place meaninful healer balance. People were expecting SCH to be nerfed and most of us were fine with it. What we aren't fine with is the dev team who clearly has no healer mains amongst themselves and a deep seated allergy to actually listening to the community in regards to how balance needs to be carried out, actually attempting to balance these classes. Lo and behold, our 'balances' are a joke. It's forced difficulty and frustration that brought classes down to an unacceptable level instead of bringing the class that needed innovation up to standard. I will be SHOCKED if SCH still isn't the meta going forward because these changes just cause frustration, they don't fix really any of the problems people had with SCH barring neutering our faeries.

[YanderePrincess]

a deep seated allergy to actually listening to the community in regards to how balance needs to be carried out

This is absolutely untrue. The dev team DOES listen to the community. Just because they don't always implement something the way we specifically want it doesn't mean they're not listening. Listening to the community does NOT mean giving in to the community on every little thing.

[Enla]

This is absolutely untrue. The dev team DOES listen to the community. Just because they don't always implement something the way we specifically want it doesn't mean they're not listening. Listening to the community does NOT mean giving in to the community on every little thing.

In regards to healer balance, they don't. At no point did I say they don't listen to the community /at all/ and I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.

[YanderePrincess]

In regards to healer balance, they don't. At no point did I say they don't listen to the community /at all/ and I'd thank you not to put words in my mouth.

What you said implied they don't listen at all when it comes to any balance issues. Even limiting it to healers, though, the past 6 years do not agree with your statement. Just because they haven't necessarily gotten it right doesn't mean they're not listening. The community is not inherently right about how to balance things.

[Enla]

What you said implied they don't listen at all when it comes to any balance issues. Even limiting it to healers, though, the past 6 years do not agree with your statement. Just because they haven't necessarily gotten it right doesn't mean they're not listening. The community is not inherently right about how to balance things.

What we aren't fine with is the dev team who clearly has no healer mains amongst themselves and a deep seated allergy to actually listening to the community in regards to how balance needs to be carried out

This was the entire sentence. I didn't break it apart to avoid the very idea you think I implied. I apologize for the confusion but there's a reason there's no periods or breaks between those thoughts.
Thing is though they usually are. People from every side of the healer spectrum have offer input and it almost always is leagues better than what the developer's come up with, especially since none of the developers actually main healer as per their own words. The entirety of 3.0 was a mess for healer balance and the community offered critiques of many varieties to help the devs out. Not one bit was listened to and they instead made it /worse/ in 4.0 where it was clear that not a single person on that team knows what they were doing or actually talked to high end healers for their feed back. They spent the entire expansion trying to fix things and in the end /over buffed/ SCH after nerfing it into the ground, couldn't figure out how to make WHM viable, and now in 5.0 it's pretty clear they've thrown in the towel for how much complexity each healer has lost.

I love this dev team to death but they have a vision for healers that is very much at odds with almost any healer in the game, be they pure healer minded or high end Savage-DPS monsters. If they are listening at all it's with wool between their ears and an inability to look past what they think healing should be about in this game instead of what it actually is. Above all else they desperately need to hire a healer main for the design team, or coordinate with top level players for feedback. Because all the things the community have been warning about since we got the skill list and information about the upcoming nerfs? Proved true. Every. Single. One. And with added 'what the fudge' bonuses like the Aetherflow shenanigans to top it off. Something any healer main would tell them is not a good idea.

You can like the dev team and still take them to task for being inept at one part of their job. The two are not mutually exclusive and now three expansions worth of evidence show they don't know what they're doing.