Reasoning for removal of TP, but not MP?

[Millybonk]

No, MP management has far more use beyond "stop spamming AoE"
In fact most mages have their own, sustainable AoE rotations anyway. That arbitrary barrier just doesn't exist for mages like it did for physical.

A RDM will never run out of MP unless they cast Verraise.
A BLM will never run out of MP, period, but it dictates their Ice/Fire rotation.

Cherry-picking cases in which MP is indeed either part of the rotation or a non-factor.

What's with a WHM spamming Holy?
It's an AoE spell which does damage, but spamming is prevented due to its cost + WHM needing the MP for heals.

[Seraphor]

Healers are their own class of MP management. They can't just spam heals, they will run out of MP very quickly.
MP management is what their whole job philosophy is based around.

[Millybonk]

Healers are their own class of MP management. They can't just spam heals, they will run out of MP very quickly.
MP management is what their whole job philosophy is based around.

We were talking about AoE spells which require a resource to prevent AoE-spamming, correct?
Holy is no healing spell, it does damage, and unlike TP classes hasn't got his cost removed.

Why not?

[Seraphor]

We were talking about AoE spells which require a resource to prevent AoE-spamming, correct?
Holy is no healing spell, it does damage, and unlike TP classes hasn't got his cost removed.

Why not?

Because it's not the same.
It's a healer using DPS spells. That's their whole MP management shtick.

Healers: Manages MP by balancing DPS vs healing, their role vs bonus damage.
RDM and SMN: No MP issues unless they raise, stepping outside of their role.
DRK and BLM: MP management integral to job mechanics.

Physical DPS are the only ones who were arbitrarily gimped for doing their core job role too much.

[Millybonk]

Because it's not the same.
It's a healer using DPS spells. That's their whole MP management shtick.

Healers: Manages MP by balancing DPS vs healing, their role vs bonus damage.
RDM and SMN: No MP issues unless they raise, stepping outside of their role.
DRK and BLM: MP management integral to job mechanics.

Physical DPS are the only ones who were arbitrarily gimped for doing their core job role too much.

Hmm: indeed, healers have to manage MP between dps and healing, but the same applied to TP classes before, namely managing TP between AoE and single-target.

You did acknowledge the duality of healer also being dps, but now you claim TP classes were gimped before due to AoE TP costs, but you don't apply that reasoning to healer wanting to AoE dps, because they're still gimped by the MP cost.

[DrMaverick]

As i like to say, the only reason TP existed in the first place was because it was in 1.0. It was one of the staples of 1.0 so they kept it, but they never really realised WHY it was a staple- the reason it was such a big part of 1.0 was because it needed to be BUILT UP to use more powerful weaponskills. Having it maxed out completely contradicted the reason for its existence.
However, they soon realised how unnecessary it is, and especially thanks to the job gauges giving most classes something else to have to manage. The job gauges took the place that TP was meant to have, and slightly more along the lines of 1.0's style of resource management, especially looking towards certain classes. Like White Mage. Its bar builds up and that's the only way you can use certain skills. Not many are locked behind it, but... still.

[Seraph522]

Cherry-picking cases in which MP is indeed either part of the rotation or a non-factor.

What's with a WHM spamming Holy?
It's an AoE spell which does damage, but spamming is prevented due to its cost + WHM needing the MP for heals.

...unless you make use of WHM's extensive MP-management abilities to handle the drain. Between Thin Air, Assize, and Lucid, the only time WHM should run out of MP while Holy-spamming is if they're not using those abilities effectively or when the rest of your party's DPS is bad. And you also hit on the exact reason MP wasn't removed - it's a cap on heal-spamming, and particularly on rez-spamming. Playing as a healer means managing your MP and not using healing spells over and over again unnecessarily, and this applies to a lesser extent to RDM as well (re: Verraise spam).

[Millybonk]

...unless you make use of WHM's extensive MP-management abilities to handle the drain. Between Thin Air, Assize, and Lucid, the only time WHM should run out of MP while Holy-spamming is if they're not using those abilities effectively or when the rest of your party's DPS is bad. And you also hit on the exact reason MP wasn't removed - it's a cap on heal-spamming, and particularly on rez-spamming. Playing as a healer means managing your MP and not using healing spells over and over again unnecessarily, and this applies to a lesser extent to RDM as well (re: Verraise spam).

You are correct of course, but why should a MP class in WHM be forced to use several CDs just to keep his AoE-spamming up, when a TP class can do the same now for free without having to do anything else?

[Umsche]

You are correct of course, but why should a MP class in WHM be forced to use several CDs just to keep his AoE-spamming up, when a TP class can do the same now for free without having to do anything else?

Because magical classes use spells, physical classes just swing their arms, they do not use aether.

[ApolloGenX]

You are correct of course, but why should a MP class in WHM be forced to use several CDs just to keep his AoE-spamming up, when a TP class can do the same now for free without having to do anything else?

No, this is a good point... why not remove the limiting factor on these AoEs as well with the CD being the limiter like other classes?

There is a hard cap now on mp for healing resource management. It really is inconsistent. Tanks can spam AoEs without taking away from tanking ability... healers should be able to do the same, and isolate the healing resource management to healing spells requiring mp.