Reasoning for removal of TP, but not MP?

[Zyneste]

TP was useless, I do not understand why anyone would remove MP. If you remove MP it wouldn't even make sense.

Go on.

MP is just old TP at this point. They literally just added an extra zero from 1,000 to 10,000.

MP was always the same as TP, except that piety could modify its max value, with that changed it is a carbon copy of TP.

Don't you get tired Pushing a Doom Spike or an Overpower the same as you might run out of Aether to cast magic?

The only real issue I see with the changes is that TP is infinite, but MP took a nerf with the loss of Refresh. MP Sustain with multiple deaths will be a serious issue.

[Critical-Limit]

TP used to be managed in heavensward. I remember having to use invigorate@ half TP. Then you’d get it back right before it fell to zero. As least it was that way for first raid tier as Monk

[Warkupo]

Nothing really changes by taking away TP from melee, while taking away MP requires broad changes to enough classes that it would be far messier to implement. What do you do to limit the healer that just spams their most powerful cure over and over again? What about the Paladin who is now free to spam clemency or holy spirit? The blackmage who can now entirely ignore two of their three elements? Sure it wouldn't make a big impact for summoner or redmage, but there's enough classes where it does that I imagine the workload to overhaul those classes further wasn't worth the effort.

The only time TP came up in the entire game was if your AOE damage wasn't good enough to kill the adds you had pulled. It served no real gameplay purpose outside of that so it didn't make sense to keep it as a barrier.

[Clicked]

MP for healers is how they're balanced. You are supposed to weigh the cost of AOE vs the MP you'll need to heal your group and your MP management cooldowns. Healers are the only role that can use Piety, a MP management stat. It's their whole gimmick.

MP for caster DPS is a limitation on raises OR core to their rotation (BLM). Not to mention that other casters have at least a tiny bit of decision making during the AOE rotation, where as MP neutral/free Holy Spam would not.

[Millybonk]

MP for healers is how they're balanced. You are supposed to weigh the cost of AOE vs the MP you'll need to heal your group and your MP management cooldowns. Healers are the only role that can use Piety, a MP management stat. It's their whole gimmick.

MP for caster DPS is a limitation on raises OR core to their rotation (BLM). Not to mention that other casters have at least a tiny bit of decision making during the AOE rotation, where as MP neutral/free Holy Spam would not.

The same could be said previously for TP in weighting TP for AoE vs. single-target, but albeit at a lower impact/difficulty compared to the normal healer/dps hybrid.

How about this: MP classes with only CDs like TP classes, and only raises + heals costing a hefty amount of MP?
You'd combat the obvious raise/constant spam healing issues while still providing MP classes the same benefit TP classes now got.

Indeed, MP costs of AoE spells do add a tiny difficulty, but look at it like this: TP classes are now allowed to "Brain off, AoE all you want" whereas MP classes still have to think a little about their resources.
Why can't my WHM get the same "Brain off, AoE all you want" benefit?

[Clicked]

The same could be said previously for TP in weighting TP for AoE vs. single-target, but albeit at a lower impact/difficulty compared to the normal healer/dps hybrid.

How about this: MP classes with only CDs like TP classes, and only raises + heals costing a hefty amount of MP?
You'd combat the obvious raise/constant spam healing issues while still providing MP classes the same benefit TP classes now got.

Indeed, MP costs of AoE spells do add a tiny difficulty, but look at it like this: TP classes are now allowed to "Brain off, AoE all you want" whereas MP classes still have to think a little about their resources.
Why can't my WHM get the same "Brain off, AoE all you want" benefit?

Some jobs can do things other jobs can't. That's normal and expected. That's why we have 17(?) jobs and 4 roles to choose from. We don't need to make every job feel the same in AOE pulls.

As for why we don't remove MP, probably because it's convenient to keep it. It's mostly a resource for healers and BLMs to manage, but other jobs dip into the MP pool as well because, why not? It's there and it makes sense in terms of lore and job flavor. It's not like they are going to remove the MP bar when you switch jobs. It wouldn't make sense to remove it since all current and future healers are going to use the bar and it can be used as a restriction on any number of things in the future (like BLM spells and raises).

[Xtrasweettea]

The only real issue I see with the changes is that TP is infinite, but MP took a nerf with the loss of Refresh. MP Sustain with multiple deaths will be a serious issue.

What loss of Refresh? You mean those abilities that most PUG Range DPS rarely use? Or are you talking about Mana Shift... another ability most PUG Mage DPS rarely use? It is hard to miss something that most people rarely have seen.

MP Sustain should be a serious issue if there are multiple deaths. If there are multiple deaths, there are issues going on that need to be addressed. If multiple deaths are happening because of stupid actions (like DPS standing in deadly AOE or tanks spinning the cleaving boss), those issue need to be taken care of. The "I'll just raise this DPS and we'll zombie through this" isn't going to work anymore.

TP is infinite because SE decided to make the real resource limiter Healer's MP for this expansion. TP users didn't get a buff, instead they had their resource limitation outsourced to healers. If anything, the Infinite TP is a nerf.

Yes, TP Users can spam all the AOE they want, but if Healer McCureIISpam drains the bank, it doesn't matter if you can DPS for free. That Healer just ate up the group's resources.

It doesn't matter if the Healer is great with MP management, Tanks deciding to show everyone that the boss can cleave isn't going to help.

It also doesn't matter if the Healer and the Tank do good, if DPS don't actually DPS, the Healer will run out of resources at some point.

Everyone is actually going to have to stop watching the Netflix and actually put some attention into group content... even casual content.

[IntrovertAnt]

As a PLD in SB, during elongated fights with alot of enemies, it was very common for me to run out of BOTH mp (overuse of flash if all of your dps are hitting different targets) AND TP (total eclipse spam). Not really complaining, since it still did the job, but it always felt really bad to use PLD aoe abilities.

[TankHunter678]

Removing MP would require a drastic rework of the entire game. As removing it would break every healer class and all the mages. All healing and reviving would have to be changed to be cooldown based as there would be no detriments to heal spamming or people dying in any fight without a enrage mechanic otherwise. You would have SCH and AST players just spamming shields to null damage if they did not have to care about mana at all.

TP was only ever a concern in 1 situation: AoE pulls. Outside of then it regenerated faster then it could be consumed unless you were playing a class that could achieve ludicrous skill speeds to actually outpace the regen.

Hence why it was not an issue to remove TP. TP itself was nearly as useless as the non royal road Spire card was. Both were only ever a concern/use in 1 situation that was only ever in normal dungeons.

[Dubont]

TP was a resource that was unnecessary. I spam the mess out of weapon skills and my TP always stayed high. You would NEVER run out of it, essentially making it useless.

MP, though, is a whole different story. The whole point of being able to use magic in this game or any other game, is that you have to have mana to do so. If you don't have the mana, you don't get to cast your magic.

Think of it like Magic: the Gathering. Does it cost mana to attack? No, unless the defending player has a buff up that forces you to (similar to attacking into something in this game that drains your health). Now, if you cast a spell, can you do it for free? Not usually unless you have a combo out. You always have to use mana or some other resource to cast spells. Using resource to just swing your sword and go pewpew has never been a successful thing.