Objective Considerations about the new tanks in ShB! Discuss :)

[shao32]

DRK got Delirium+Bloodspiller Spam because of content design needs not because TA exists. Warriors cheesing Phantom Train is a good example of why all 4 tanks need a 10 sec burst window of similar potency.

phantom train is a good expample that death mechanics soudn't being able to skip by something that simple like burst a add, and devs should be more careful with this kind of stuff in the future raids.

[Anger]

Unless/until Trick Attack is adjusted or the entire meta is shifted away from burst windows, which would require an entire job overhaul - which we just had. Then not having burst will always be detrimental to your jobs position in the meta. WAR synergizes very well with burst windows. This game has a lot of emphasis of dealing large amounts of on demand damage. DPS checks, etc.

The real question you should ask is whether or not you care about meta. It's not needed for 80 - 90% of the games population.

[Kaozurei]

I'd just like to point out that people say bringing a Ninja should be equal to bringing any other melee DPS, however if this was the case then there would be no reason to bring Ninja at all, especially considering the difficulty and vulnerability to high ping Shadowbringers Ninja has. Why play a job that's difficult to play optimally when people can just faceroll on a SAM and contribute just as much to the group? Gotta give them something to gain from how shafted they got both in personal DPS and playstyle with the new expansion.

That said, Only problem I personally have with the tanks is that Gunbreaker seems a bit on the weaker side offensively and defensively and Dark Knight still seems a bit weaker defensively when compared to Paladin and Warrior. If their defensive toolkit (and GNB's offensive tookit) got buffed slightly then they'd all be pretty even IMO.

[JohnSeal]

I mean, melee DD wise they are all different and have a special playstile. Be a Nin is a choice and you choose it because you like the class not for TA. Same for other players that like Monk because of form, stance and position or other that like to jump so they Drg. They are all good and valuable and all increase party dps. If you don’t like any of that, can just play Sam that is fun, flashy and much more straightforward. Sam has no party buff but deal 1-2k more than Nin so they both Equally provide benefits to the raid group, high dps = quicker kill. I personally don’t play melee at high end level, tbh I don’t like positional skills xD
Most of XIV players are happy with burst rooms, I am levelling up a DNC and can’t wait to learn my Flourish 60 sec skill that proc everything at once, Amazing I am ecstatic!! Plus as a Dnc you can stack up fethers for your ogcd skill up to 4 and use them when you want (in burst windows
). Imagine 4 weaposkills proc + 1 FD3 proc+ potentially up to 4 FD1 ocds already prepared and potentially other 2-3 FD3 proc all to sink in a 10sec room, that’s like DDs Heaven ^^

Btw about the tanks 10sec burst windows, I was crunching some numbers rq:
DRK:5BS+ 2EoS+C&S+Plunge+AD = 4850 dps * 10%DA buff ——> 5335
If you add an extra EoS its a bit more

WAR: 1IC + 4FC+ Ons+ Upheaval = 4190 dps + SE 10% buff ——-> 4191 all will crit tho

GNB: SB+ BZ+ BS + GF(continuation) + SC(continuation) + WT(continuation) = 4740 dps + 10sec of No mercy buff 20% ———> 5688 ( you also have another combo and 2 skills can fit in No mercy)

As you see the GNB has nothing less than the other tanks damage wise! War wins only because of crit!

[Maneesha]

Meta is WAR/PLD (again).

DRK and GNB are more novelty at the moment.

Reasons:

* You simply cannot ignore Paladin's utility.
* Inner Release synergizes extremely well with Trick Attack windows.
* Paladin Damage is extremely high while having superior utility.
* GNB mitigation is the worst.
* GNB Burst DPS is the worst of all four tanks.
* Party wide cool down for GNB and DRK (identical) is worse than Shake It Off, Divine Veil, and Passage of Arms.
* DRK would be considered before GNB because of its burst but is still too gimmicky to overtake Warrior. It's a warrior on a budget.

The die has been cast. See you in two years.

How about 2x Pld?
If LB generation isnt bad with 2x Pld and the other tanks dont pull 500+ more dps you would have twice the pld utility..

On topic: i will have to level all tanks to max until i can really judge them, i am leveling very slow atm, also my criteria for judging is mostly aesthetics and engaging game-play, not dps. Still its really fun and interesting reading all your posts guys.

[Fangorn]

Guys, what are your thoughts on best stats and melding? Cant find anywhere else. Maybe missed it. Particularly interested in PLD

[Kaozurei]

Guys, what are your thoughts on best stats and melding? Cant find anywhere else. Maybe missed it. Particularly interested in PLD

Too early to ask about this kind of stuff. Ask again in about a month when the first raid tier's out and more testing's been done to determine optimal party composition and whatnot, maybe there'll be a more accurate answer then.

[Tyrial]

Why is nobody talking about the nightmare that is enmity in any multi tank dungeon if the other tank doesn't want to work with you?

[MerlinCross]

Picking up on Trick Attack; Well I liked it back in Stormblood due to being smoother to do than MCH's Wildfire. Now though..., maybe it should be removed? I dunno.

I do KNOW however that trick attack being removed won't matter. It just won't. The community, so latched onto DPS/Burst over anything else will find the next thing to latch onto.

If Trick Attack was removed tomorrow, the meta would change to "How do we work around Divination?" which would again, make people weigh the tanks around it.

[Bright-Flower]

I can't speak for the other three tanks, but PLD feels a good deal improved. Its single target rotation a little more involved. Gap closer nice for convenience. The buttons we lost were, for the most part, situational or given replacements, and finally we have some real aoe that makes aoe situations a lot more engaging.

Why is nobody talking about the nightmare that is enmity in any multi tank dungeon if the other tank doesn't want to work with you?

Multi tank dungeons? You mean all two of them? Prae and CM are so easy it's really not an issue if tanks fight over agro on trash packs.

If you mean alliance raids I haven't seen any issues there either on trash since 5.0.