Objective Considerations about the new tanks in ShB! Discuss :)

[Ivellior]

Any enmity management was only present in savage raids and even there, the OT tank were giving you enmity by shirking and provoking and it was no philosophy nor a depth gameplay, just a annoying gimmick to help maintain DPS stance on both tanks.

That is part of dumbing down I mentioned before. They could just remove shriek and decrease the enmity modifiers on the combos and magically, you have enmity management again.

They deleted def cooldowns and nerfed it in some way or another to make room for healers to actually heal more instead of DPSing for majority of time. You cant keep trinity with tanks being able to hold them own, or you will end up with healers being glorified DPS.

That is absurd. Do you want to increase healing? Just make the bosses auto attacks do 5x or 10x more damage. Problem solved, now healers actually have to heal and you still have a lot of defensive cooldowns which are now necessary and useful again. Also the trinity also requires tank to actually tank and not just be glorified blue dps like thay are now.

Homogenisation was present in stormblood to even higher degree, idk what you were doing for the last 2 years, but tanks were always similar to each other in that patch, at least now they are more different than then.
They had tank stance which were made for the exact same purpose, they had dedicated AOE pull, range pull, some kind of shield, they had enmity combo, they had dps combo, all had gauge to use for skills, 2 of them had dash, 1 strong offensive oGCD to single target, 1 strong def CD, one weaker def CD, one CD that allowed them to be immune to damage, well not to mention 7 shared class actions. Seriously there were no diversity in tanks anyway and you are complaining about thing that did not existed anyway, tanks now are more diverse then they were in anytime in stormblood. And no, DRK and WAR are not the same because of IR and delirium.

Saying that tanks are more different now is seriously disingenuous. The way tank stances worked was MUCH more different than the way they do now. WAR had a different skillset between the bloody stances...
Gauge/gimmicks were added to all classes. It really only makes sense on WAR and they just added it to the other tanks because they had to add a gauge. And WARs gauge actually has a meaning since you need to do some resource management compared to other classes. Not to mention the classes still have gauges.
Yes tanks had a lot of tools that had similar usage (some were required) and instead of making them more different they just made them even more homogenised.

Comparing this game to world of warcraft is petty to say the least.

No it's not. Both are mmos, both use the trinity and both homogenised their classes. It's also a live example of what happens when you homogenise too much. It's a very appropriate example.

FFXIV is a game designed with mind of making all teams being able to go through the content, so you will be able to finish the content no matter the team composition you will get from PUGs, it always been like that. WoW is completely different pair of boots, because blizzard just forced same changes on their game which was different from the beginning.

I think you are complaining about wrong game lad, or you play WoW too often.

Raiding in WoW and FFXIV is pretty similar. WoW also has LFR so pugging is a thing there as well (WoW probably has better raiding because they have more bosses and difficulty scales better). In FFXIV you can finish most content with PUGS because the content is not punishing/difficult. You can clear normal modes with pugs. But that is not true for difficult content. Try pugging an ultimate.

[jetfire117]

Can I get like two more CDs on DRK or something? I feel so naked and feel bad for my healers lol.

[Anger]

Meta is WAR/PLD (again).

DRK and GNB are more novelty at the moment.

Reasons:

* You simply cannot ignore Paladin's utility.
* Inner Release synergizes extremely well with Trick Attack windows.
* Paladin Damage is extremely high while having superior utility.
* GNB mitigation is the worst.
* GNB Burst DPS is the worst of all four tanks.
* Party wide cool down for GNB and DRK (identical) is worse than Shake It Off, Divine Veil, and Passage of Arms.
* DRK would be considered before GNB because of its burst but is still too gimmicky to overtake Warrior. It's a warrior on a budget.

The die has been cast. See you in two years.

[Tila]

Gonna level them all, but gameplay wise... Warrior just feels like DRK but with less to do. A very similar rotation but with fewer OGCD.

[shao32]

Meta is WAR/PLD (again).

DRK and GNB are more novelty at the moment.

Reasons:

* You simply cannot ignore Paladin's utility.
* Inner Release synergizes extremely well with Trick Attack windows.
* Paladin Damage is extremely high while having superior utility.
* GNB mitigation is the worst.
* GNB Burst DPS is the worst of all four tanks.
* Party wide cool down for GNB and DRK (identical) is worse than Shake It Off, Divine Veil, and Passage of Arms.
* DRK would be considered before GNB because of its burst but is still too gimmicky to overtake Warrior. It's a warrior on a budget.

The die has been cast. See you in two years.

they really need to rework or remove trick attack from ninja, this whole lack of burst being a "problem" it's killing jobs, i don't want to see GNB becoming more burtsy and get another inner release bcs this stuff.

[JohnSeal]

Remove TA from NIN?! That’s absurd!! TA is the best thing in the entire game lol

Right now I can tell the best tank is the PLD for dmg and mitigation.

War is still the same and can still do great, I enjoy the new RI and Trill buff tho.

Drk is behind defences wise certainly but I love the class now definitely.

GNB miss burst dmg windows but the defensive tool kit it’s great, I love the HoL that’s just basically RI just longer duration but less pot

[JohnSeal]

Remove TA from NIN?! That’s absurd!! TA is the best thing in the entire game lol

Right now I can tell the best tank is the PLD for dmg and mitigation.

War is still the same and can still do great, I enjoy the new RI and Trill buff tho.

Drk is behind defences wise certainly but I love the class now definitely.

GNB miss burst dmg windows but the defensive tool kit it’s great, I love the HoL that’s just basically RI just longer duration but less pot

[shao32]

Remove TA from NIN?! That’s absurd!! TA is the best thing in the entire game lol

if everything is build around TA window then is a bad dealing not only for make NIN mandatory BCS muh DPS logs but Making don't have a super mega strong burst being a problem when it shouldn't, sustained DPS need some love too.

[Ignimortis]

Remove TA from NIN?! That’s absurd!! TA is the best thing in the entire game lol

Right now I can tell the best tank is the PLD for dmg and mitigation.

War is still the same and can still do great, I enjoy the new RI and Trill buff tho.

Drk is behind defences wise certainly but I love the class now definitely.

GNB miss burst dmg windows but the defensive tool kit it’s great, I love the HoL that’s just basically RI just longer duration but less pot

TA is the worst thing in the game, because you have to build around it, and that means burst will always be better than sustained DPS. I don't know what SE was thinking with both DRK changes (lost the whole mechanical identity it had, with MP management and fast-paces combos) and removing every synergy in the game BUT Trick Attack. Just ditch TA too, boom, both burst and sustained are now equally valid.

[Kalise]

Remove TA from NIN?! That’s absurd!! TA is the best thing in the entire game lol

TA is the single worst skill left in the game.

Since, it (Along with dumb encounter design with forced downtime) promotes such a cancerous meta that revolves around popping CD's on 60s intervals and making burst = king. Whilst simultaneously, cementing NIN as a mandatory pick for pretty much any team composition (Something they were trying to actually get rid of with the changes to BRD/DRG, but arbitrarily decided not to do the same with NIN and TA).

TA windows are why WAR in SB was better than PLD/DRK. TA windows are why WAR continues to be better than DRK/GNB. TA windows are why we have DRK being a crappy WAR knockoff with IR-lite. TA windows are why GNB can't use a SkS build (Since, it would require absurd levels of SkS to get Gnashing Fang's 30s CD down to 20s to continue to align with TA windows). TA windows are why no-one has any freedom to use skills like Plunge/Intervene/Rough Divide/Infuriate for utility purposes, because you need to pool up 2 charges for TA windows. TA windows push every job towards needing to be designed around 10s burst phases so you can't have any job variety with sustained damage dealers. Among other things.

Raw damage buffs are just not good design. They cause so many problems, because invariably, everything always ends up coming back to aligning CD's with them. This is made even worse by the fact that TA has a mere 60s CD (Compared to the 120/180s CD's of other rDPS boosts) which means its up so often that you literally always have to consider it for any CD usage...