Objective Considerations about the new tanks in ShB! Discuss :)

[Maneesha]

Meta is WAR/PLD (again).

DRK and GNB are more novelty at the moment.

Reasons:

* You simply cannot ignore Paladin's utility.
* Inner Release synergizes extremely well with Trick Attack windows.
* Paladin Damage is extremely high while having superior utility.
* GNB mitigation is the worst.
* GNB Burst DPS is the worst of all four tanks.
* Party wide cool down for GNB and DRK (identical) is worse than Shake It Off, Divine Veil, and Passage of Arms.
* DRK would be considered before GNB because of its burst but is still too gimmicky to overtake Warrior. It's a warrior on a budget.

The die has been cast. See you in two years.

How about 2x Pld?
If LB generation isnt bad with 2x Pld and the other tanks dont pull 500+ more dps you would have twice the pld utility..

On topic: i will have to level all tanks to max until i can really judge them, i am leveling very slow atm, also my criteria for judging is mostly aesthetics and engaging game-play, not dps. Still its really fun and interesting reading all your posts guys.

[Tila]

Gonna level them all, but gameplay wise... Warrior just feels like DRK but with less to do. A very similar rotation but with fewer OGCD.

[JohnSeal]

Guys I don’t know how serious you are about what you are saying....TA is the best skill in the ENTIRE game! 10% buff to drop everything you have and ofc rotation focus on burst. TA is better than ice cream, bacon, chocolate spread and French fries for any gamer. At this point let SE stop release Savage raid and Ex trial and let’s all play casual, shall we...

[shao32]

Guys I don’t know how serious you are about what you are saying....TA is the best skill in the ENTIRE game! 10% buff to drop everything you have and ofc rotation focus on burst. TA is better than ice cream, bacon, chocolate spread and French fries for any gamer. At this point let SE stop release Savage raid and Ex trial and let’s all play casual, shall we...

i consider everyone here is pretty serious, TA is a big problem in terms of job sinergy offering extreme bonus to certain jobs while the others don't and get re-designed around that stupid skill you like it or not

[Ignimortis]

Guys I don’t know how serious you are about what you are saying....TA is the best skill in the ENTIRE game! 10% buff to drop everything you have and ofc rotation focus on burst. TA is better than ice cream, bacon, chocolate spread and French fries for any gamer. At this point let SE stop release Savage raid and Ex trial and let’s all play casual, shall we...

I get what you're saying, that Trick Attack requires optimization and thus removing it would be a step towards raids being more casual...but if removing Trick Attack would lead to more complex and enjoyable personal job kits with distinct feel to them, I think most of us would gladly remove TA and say "good riddance". Besides, TA promotes certain gameplay patterns while discouraging other patterns, which means it has a lot of influence, maybe too much, when people decide what fits into the "meta" and what doesn't.

[Kalise]

TA is the best skill in the ENTIRE game!

And that's the problem.

It's too good. Thus it creates negative feedback loops that devolve into crap like making sure that DRK gets a crappy Inner Release clone instead of something actually unique and interesting (You know, like maybe having the Living Shadow provide a bunch of extra sustained DPS?)

10% buff to drop everything you have and ofc rotation focus on burst.

Again, this is a problem.

Since, it really hampers job design. Since EVERYTHING has to be focused around burst. You can't have any form of sustained damage, no everything has to be 10s burst windows. Specifically 10s burst windows. You can't have more than that, because then it won't fit into a TA window.

Burst already has inherent advantages over sustained damage. It deals with target swaps more effectively, it clears trash better, it is less effected by loss of uptime.

Why does it need additional focus in the form of TA being such a massive boost to damage?

At this point let SE stop release Savage raid and Ex trial and let’s all play casual, shall we...

I fail to see the relevance between TA being horrible design and Savage/Ex Trials?

Unless you're implying that TA is required for Savage/Ex Trials? Or that for some reason, the non-existence of TA somehow simplifies the game (Which is actually being simplified because of TA, since it's becoming more and more focused on "Press CD and burst for 5 GCDs" every 60/90s and because of TA that equates to like 30-40% of your entire damage output.

Heck, most other games, these massively potent rDPS CD's are typically once per fight things. Where you co-ordinate much more about maximizing a single burst window during an encounter, and have to figure out the best time to use it (I.e. Which phase you want to get through the fastest). Yet, here in XIV, we have TA being on a shorter CD than most other CD's... Which requires so much co-ordination such as just pressing your own CD whenever its up because half the time it'll coincide with TA...

[Ultimatecalibur]

It's too good. Thus it creates negative feedback loops that devolve into crap like making sure that DRK gets a crappy Inner Release clone instead of something actually unique and interesting (You know, like maybe having the Living Shadow provide a bunch of extra sustained DPS?)

DRK got Delirium+Bloodspiller Spam because of content design needs not because TA exists. Warriors cheesing Phantom Train is a good example of why all 4 tanks need a 10 sec burst window of similar potency.

[shao32]

DRK got Delirium+Bloodspiller Spam because of content design needs not because TA exists. Warriors cheesing Phantom Train is a good example of why all 4 tanks need a 10 sec burst window of similar potency.

phantom train is a good expample that death mechanics soudn't being able to skip by something that simple like burst a add, and devs should be more careful with this kind of stuff in the future raids.

[JohnSeal]

Meta is not requires and you can raid or kill UCOB with or without NIN, still it’s so enjoyable to see TA coming up for every class even healers. For some jobs is more advantageous ok but that’s a coincidence not certainly SE doing it on purpose to give advantages to some jobs in particular. Having a NIN in a party is a plus, like mayo with your chips or whipped cream on the ice cream (yes I am hungry). Btw tried the Drk already multiple time and you can’t “spam” Edge or Flood, the mp regen from weaponskills need a serious boost

[shao32]

Meta is not requires and you can raid or kill UCOB with or without NIN, still it’s so enjoyable to see TA coming up for every class even healers. For some jobs is more advantageous ok but that’s a coincidence not certainly SE doing it on purpose to give advantages to some jobs in particular. Having a NIN in a party is a plus, like mayo with your chips or whipped cream on the ice cream (yes I am hungry). Btw tried the Drk already multiple time and you can’t “spam” Edge or Flood, the mp regen from weaponskills need a serious boost

having a ninja shouldn't be a plus, it should be as equal to bring a SAM/MNK/DRG of equal skill.