whm weaving

[Zyneste]

Sorry it took so long to get back to the replies. I was obviously caught up in the expansion >.>

Regarding your math, Something is off, Dia instant is 120/2.5s (48), Glare+clip is 300/3.3s (90). So alone this definitely doesn't make up for it. You also can't count the ticks towards the total because you should take 100% uptime as your default. Any clipping you do of your dot will not change your dps output but it will eventually cost you an extra gcd later on in the fight. Thinking of it as "clipping Dia After 12s is a dps gain on Glare" is inaccurate because it's a dps loss compared to letting Dia fall off naturally; as explained above past 10 clips you'll spend an entire gcd keeping Dia up. For the record the potency loss from a clip would be around 18 pot (7) if I'm not mistaken (basically a tenth of a glare gcd minus what you get back from dia initial hit, and not 60 from the tick as you might think).
This means that Clipping Dia to weave calculates to (120 - (18*<number of ticks clipped>))/2.5. Which is even worse. The only time you don't get a loss from it is if you clip it less than 10 times in a fight or you clip it responsibly before a phase transition. But even then you're better off clipping your glare.

Just clip your gcd and ask SE to give you a dps ogcd to weave after your healing instants. Instead of healing ogcds.

Edit: changed numbers a bit because I forgot original dia pot when calculating the loss.

Most OGCDs, with the exception of maybe mudras (since the adjustment) have an animation cast time of 1 second, if not longer.

I can see part of your arguement in that by clipping your DOT, you are overwriting what was always supposed to be there, so thats why you arent including the DOT ticks in the old DOT and calling it a flat 120, but this isn't right either.


A full "cycle" of Dia with glare would bring a pps of:

1 x Dia 11 Glares
720 + 3300 = 4,020. This makes the PPS of the GCDS 134. 14 up from pure Glare Spam. 35 potency per 2.5 sec GCD. So each DOT we clip and prevent would net us a loss from a Max point of view.

The formula I could think of is as follows

[DOT Total potency at clip - Filler Spell Potency] - [seconds clipped x (Full cycle PPS - Filler Spam PPS)]

An Example would then be:

9 seconds in Reapply Dia.

[(120 + 180) - 300] - [21 x 14]

0 - 294 = -294

Wed then take that and compare it to the DPS lost from clipping the GCD which would be the PPS of the filler spell or 120.

In this case -120 > -294 so it would be better to clip the GCD rather than to weave. We can then continue this pattern.

Clipping at 12 seconds.

[(120 + 240) - 300] - [18 x 14]

60 - 252 = -192

-120 > -192.

Continue again.

[(120 + 300) - 300] - [15 x 14]

120 - 210 = -90

-120 < -90

In this case clipping your DOT and weaving at 15 seconds is going to be a net gain over clipping your GCD for sure.

Thank you for helping me to re-evaluate it from the simpler way I was doing it before. I think in many cases, my original method would work out, just from how much DOT is left on the boss by the time it died, but this way would be much more accurate. But I do stand by that WHM still does have Dia as a weave option as a better mitigation loss to DPS than just clipping the GCD.

[Yuyuka3]

So, I got to test WHM in the new level 80 dungeons today and I have to say... it feels even slower to me than before. I spend so much time waiting for the GCD to wear off after using one of my new instant skills while not having much to weave with, it's not even funny... if I use them at all, which, except for Afflatus Rapture, I barely ever do outside of trash packs. Temperance is also either not really needed, or needed more often than I can use it with overzealous tanks, confirming my underwhelming first impression of the skill. It really needs a shorter CD, and at least Afflatus Misery needs to be oGCD or else I will have gone mad before the raids even drop. Better would be all of them being oGCD, but on a CD for a few seconds. Also, I was still sitting on 3 Lilies from time to time without any feasible way to dump them (I refuse to overheal/loose DPS through suboptimal Lily usage), so I really think we need a way to dump them outside of healing.

I also noticed that my heals feel kinda underwhelming compared to how much they healed before relative to party HP and I actually used two AoE-heals back-to-back a few times already to make sure people got enough HP for the next mechanic, which isn't all that bad I guess, but pretty annoying. It might be because of this being the start of the expansion and our Mind stat being very low in comparison, but I'm not quite sure about this. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but as I said, slightly annoying when you know how it was before. It looks like this is an impression across all healers, too.

The one thing I really like about the new WHM, though, is that it's basically impossible to run out of MP now...

[EaMett]

Most OGCDs, with the exception of maybe mudras (since the adjustment) have an animation cast time of 1 second, if not longer.

I can see part of your arguement in that by clipping your DOT, you are overwriting what was always supposed to be there, so thats why you arent including the DOT ticks in the old DOT and calling it a flat 120, but this isn't right either.


A full "cycle" of Dia with glare would bring a pps of:

1 x Dia 11 Glares
720 + 3300 = 4,020. This makes the PPS of the GCDS 134. 14 up from pure Glare Spam. 35 potency per 2.5 sec GCD. So each DOT we clip and prevent would net us a loss from a Max point of view.

The formula I could think of is as follows

[DOT Total potency at clip - Filler Spell Potency] - [seconds clipped x (Full cycle PPS = Filler Spam PPS)]

An Example would then be:

9 seconds in Reapply Dia.

[(120 + 180) - 300] - [21 x 14]

0 - 294 = -294

Wed then take that and compare it to the DPS lost from clipping the GCD which would be the PPS of the filler spell or 120.

In this case -120 > -294 so it would be better to clip the GCD rather than to weave. We can then continue this pattern.

Clipping at 12 seconds.

[(120 + 240) - 300] - [18 x 14]

60 - 252 = -192

-120 > -192.

Continue again.

[(120 + 300) - 300] - [15 x 14]

120 - 210 = -90

-120 < -90

In this case clipping your DOT and weaving at 15 seconds is going to be a net gain over clipping your GCD for sure.

Thank you for helping me to re-evaluate it from the simpler way I was doing it before. I think in many cases, my original method would work out, just from how much DOT is left on the boss by the time it died, but this way would be much more accurate. But I do stand by that WHM still does have Dia as a weave option as a better mitigation loss to DPS than just clipping the GCD.

Woo I love this type of discussion

It's a little late for me and I need to be able to focus on your reply so I'll give it more thought tomorrow. But one thing jumped out at me:

Wed then take that and compare it to the DPS lost from clipping the GCD which would be the PPS of the filler spell or 120.

Assuming a 1s ogcd. That means that the PPS of 300pot for 2.5s is 300/2.5 = 120. Now the PPS for the same 300 skill with a 1s clip would be 300/3.5 ~= 86. So the PPS of the filler is the difference between the two ~= -34.
It's a bit confusing but basically it's a loss of 120 potency over the course of 3.5 seconds (120/3.5 ~= 34) and not 120 in a vacuum over 1s (the confusion comes from the fact you calculate 120 as being 1s of glare so you look at it as being the PPS of your 1s clip of glare.. It's a bit of a mindf**k).