Any doubt that the game lacks enough challenge?

[Riv]

Well, AF in XI wasn't exactly a challenge to get either unless u count hours of farming for a key drop as hard. AF quests are not supposed to be challenging, it's not like we're fighting some epic boss battle for them.

[Delsus]

The af was designed to be done at the level of the quest, think for a moment if you did af quests on FFXI at the level it was impossible solo, you needed help. But if a 75 came they could solo it all.

People are just rushing through on 50s, go do them at 30,35,40,45 then see if they are that easy.

[NoctisUmbra]

The AT quests had just the right amount of challenge and entertainment to them in my opinion. Each job had thoroughly detailed lore as well as an engaging quest storyline. The fights for the higher level quests as well as entering dungeons, both new and old, for some pieces was very fun as we did it as an LS and had a blast.

Many times during our running around post patch we thought of how much fun these would be for players new and levelling up - how much motivation they had to level.

The challenge for the AF is well balanced with their stats. On the other hand, I really look forward to getting some darklight gear.

[Rutelor]

This is my personal take on things:

Here we have a team of game designers that should be designing a game keeping in mind 3 things: a) That the current population currently is, in great proportion, heavily capped in multiple classes, b) that the population has bought a game and is subscribing for it (never mind the discount) and c) that it's through the good management of said population (and its understandably temperamental nature) that there will be a game standing for the hordes to invade, when the PS3 version launches, as they're anticipating. It doesn't help the health of the collective psychology of the community if everybody squeezes all the juice from every patch in 15 minutes, and then they leave for a couple of months till the next patch arrives, like it has happened time and time again.

I think that he fact that what I mention above is happening is not the population's fault; this, no matter how quirky or addictive everybody thinks these people are. (Some have gone as far as to write that only aberrant ones, who play for days without sleep or food are the ones getting all the AF.) I happen to think that what the developers are doing with these squirt-like bursts of excitement, is establish bad parameters for future expectations, set wrong precedents, and confuse the behavior of the players. I don't claim the developers can produce 6 development years worth of content in less than one; but if the content is going to be limited in quantity--at least for the foreseeable future--they have to make it last. And time sinks won't do anymore, so real complexity and depth are needed. The degrees of challenge, perhaps, can be softened when there's enough content to sell a game with.

I, for one, am still waiting for the elemental wheels, the weather, and the time and moon cycles to be incorporated in meaningful and enriching ways in the combat and crafting system. And no, I don't mean the stupid stand-there-and-craft-facing-that-direction urban myth, or the help!-I-lost-most-of-my-output-when-the-moon-changed sad reality of yester game. I want to be kept on my toes during battle, I want different vectors interacting that will constantly change the flow of combat.

These aspects, whose absence I lament every time I write in these forums, are not content; they are infrastructural principles, and I see with dismay, as the patches come, that there is just not enough of them (in my opinion, evidently) being planted in the game's structural skeleton. I dread that one day I'll finally come to the conclusion, that the developers didn't intend this game to be rich and deep, as the company's best examples in the past. Maybe XIV is XIII online. A linear collection of pretty pictures with fast, intense, rather shallow combat, that at the end left many legacy players markedly unsatisfied. I really want to be wrong in that one.

(We didn't have to wait till cap to experience depth and complex battles and maps in XI... Remember Horutoto and the Aqueduct, the Oubliette, Giddeus, Ghelsba, Dangruf, Korroloka, and Palborough in XI? Instead of a bunch of Stuffed Dodos or a few ants that you can very often outrun in XIV?)

All of this is, of course, only my opinion. But I'm sure there are others that understand it, and even some that share it.

R

[Delsus]

This is my personal take on things:

Here we have a team of game designers that should be designing a game keeping in mind 3 things: a) That the current population currently is, in great proportion, heavily capped in multiple classes, b) that the population has bought a game and is subscribing for it (never mind the discount) and c) that it's through the good management of said population (and its understandably temperamental nature) that there will be a game standing for the hordes to invade, when the PS3 version launches, as they're anticipating. It doesn't help the health of the collective psychology of the community if everybody squeezes all the juice from every patch in 15 minutes, and then they leave for a couple of months till the next patch arrives, like it has happened time and time again.

I think that he fact that what I mention above is happening is not the population's fault; this, no matter how quirky or addictive everybody thinks these people are. (Some have gone as far as to write that only aberrant ones, who play for days without sleep or food are the ones getting all the AF.) I happen to think that what the developers are doing with these squirt-like bursts of excitement, is establish bad parameters for future expectations, set wrong precedents, and confuse the behavior of the players. I don't claim the developers can produce 6 development years worth of content in less than one; but if the content is going to be limited in quantity--at least for the foreseeable future--they have to make it last. And time sinks won't do anymore, so real complexity and depth are needed. The degrees of challenge, perhaps, can be softened when there's enough content to sell a game with.

I, for one, am still waiting for the elemental wheels, the weather, and the time and moon cycles to be incorporated in meaningful and enriching ways in the combat and crafting system. And no, I don't mean the stupid stand-there-and-craft-facing-that-direction urban myth, or the help!-I-lost-most-of-my-output-when-the-moon-changed sad reality of yester game. I want to be kept on my toes during battle, I want different vectors interacting that will constantly change the flow of combat.

These aspects, whose absence I lament every time I write in these forums, are not content; they are infrastructural principles, and I see with dismay, as the patches come, that there is just not enough of them (in my opinion, evidently) being planted in the game's structural skeleton. I dread that one day I'll finally come to the conclusion, that the developers didn't intend this game to be rich and deep, as the company's best examples in the past. Maybe XIV is XIII online. A linear collection of pretty pictures with fast, intense, rather shallow combat, that at the end left many legacy players markedly unsatisfied. I really want to be wrong in that one.

(We didn't have to wait till cap to experience depth and complex battles and maps in XI... Remember Horutoto and the Aqueduct, the Oubliette, Giddeus, Ghelsba, Dangruf, Korroloka, and Palborough in XI? Instead of a bunch of Stuffed Dodos or a few ants that you can very often outrun in XIV?)

All of this is, of course, only my opinion. But I'm sure there are others that understand it, and even some that share it.

R

They have limitations with both the client and server which prevents them doing alot which is being addressed in 2.0.

They want to keep the game content as close to what we will have in 2.0 regarding things like af, so they cannot have a lvl 30 quest to unlock a job that requires you have 7 lvl 50s helping you, that will make no one join in 2.0.

Making all content for level 50s right now then rewriting it for 2.0 is a waste of resources, it will make 2.0 come in another 2 years.

Things like the elemental wheel, weather/time/moon/face east for HQ could be done but again they add extra work and either less content or longer patches.

You seem to have no idea how long it takes to program patches, FFXIV is making a loss, it isnt financially viable to double or tripple the people working on it to get patches out faster, SE will have looked at this making it impossible to get more patches out.

It is peoples own fault for wanting their epeen "look i has all da classeseses lvl 50" for burning through quests, if they kept some classes low lvl, maybe taken a few breaks when they were burned on content they would be able to access content as it was intended.

If I were you I would do Toto rak at lvl 25-30 or shposhe at 15-25, then you have complex battles as they were intended, also if you want the sense of fear take the shortcut from drybone to uldah, or go off the beaten track in corthas, then you will experiance the fear of death.

Also those places you mentioned in FFXI, just sneak and invis past all the mobs, nothing dynamic or complex there.

[Rutelor]

You seem to have no idea how long it takes to program patches, FFXIV is making a loss, it isnt financially viable to double or tripple the people working on it to get patches out faster, SE will have looked at this making it impossible to get more patches out.

I am of the mind that I do have an idea... or two. However, what I'm asking for is something structural, not a lot of content.

Making all content for level 50s right now then rewriting it for 2.0 is a waste of resources, it will make 2.0 come in another 2 years.

What about capping all of the dungeons and all the instanced fights in quests? That would make content challenging, regardless of level. Not exactly an excessively time-consuming bit of coding. I'd be satisfied if it's announced this will be the case in V. 2.0. (Allowing for the case that Tanaka's Mess prevents the implementation now.)

Also those places you mentioned in FFXI, just sneak and invis past all the mobs, nothing dynamic or complex there.

Perhaps. But there were atmosphere and tension in the design... and both Invisible and Sneak were variable, so that you could never just lean back in your chair. Compare with the current situation: Just a speed change, from running to walking, to avoid detection by sound. The latter is constant and guaranteed to last until you turn it off; and any conditional aggro you might get (if you happen to face one of the spriggans) adds up to a nuisance, instead of a heart-stopping threat.

R

[avalonstormm]

no doubt at all on the existing af quests challenges everything was balanced.

[Noir]

Should this even be possible? It had been only three days...

I have not played many hours since patch, and I already have two jobs with full AF. And more than half of a third...

R

Are you jealous that you wasn't first?

[Rutelor]

Are you jealous that you wasn't first?

/slapface and /slapface again...

[Jinko]

AF was designed to be accessible for everyone, its not end game raid content, that will come later.

We still have 2 dungeons, have you completed both of those yet ?