Which DRK was the best

[Giubba]

What is the point of arguing which of the two was better between HW and SB? They both had their flaws and perks and the devs should've looked to both while making the SHB iteration rather than scrapping them altogether. What were the fun parts of HW, why were they removed and how could they be reworked to fit with how the game's changed? Which SB additions were good and what was too simplified? Most importantly, how can all these things be made to work with each other to create a cohesive whole?
You might have a preference, but you gotta admit neither was perfect, no job is.

Bickering about how "you only prefer SB because you didn't play HW" or "people look at HW with rose tinted glasses" doesn't actually help anything, it just makes DRK players look like whiny children who don't know what we want. Try to be constructive instead of fighting over which was better so we can have a set direction to push for, rather than getting stuck with the 5.0 mess.

What's the point in spending countless hours writing about feedback that will not be taken in ANY kind of consideration ? Because let's be real for "fixing" DRK they should rework it again from the ground up altering skill function and that's something they never did. we aren't talking about changing potency or adding some secondary effect we are talking "Jesus f Christ take the whole class down and rework it again".


And what's so monstrous simply asking which whose the best one of 2 iteration of the same job? Because it's a question that it cannot be dismantled to math and graph and simulation on rotation?
Thanks God that fun it sill cannot be measured like this. There are at least 5 active thread were people are doing exactly that and i think having at least one thread where you can simply say "i like stormblood DRK" or "i like heavensward DRK" without the NEED of explain why, is worthy keeping active.

[Satarn]

What's the point in spending countless hours writing about feedback that will not be taken in ANY kind of consideration ? Because let's be real for "fixing" DRK they should rework it again from the ground up altering skill function and that's something they never did. we aren't talking about changing potency or adding some secondary effect we are talking "Jesus f Christ take the whole class down and rework it again".


And what's so monstrous simply asking which whose the best one of 2 iteration of the same job? Because it's a question that it cannot be dismantled to math and graph and simulation on rotation?
Thanks God that fun it sill cannot be measured like this. There are at least 5 active thread were people are doing exactly that and i think having at least one thread where you can simply say "i like stormblood DRK" or "i like heavensward DRK" without the NEED of explain why, is worthy keeping active.

Just saying "I don't like this and the job needs a complete rework!" is how you get skills and playstyle totally removed and replaced with an out of the left field copy of IR. People complained about how they dislike DA spam without trying to understand or explain why - so we got DA axed and MP management with it. Not to mention the fact that so many people come here saying they enjoyed HW/SB shows that it did not in fact require a ground-up rework. There already was good stuff to work with, it just needed refinement.

There's a few people here whom explained what exactly it was that they enjoyed and that is good - what I have issue with is the whole "my preferred version was better and you only disagree because you didn't play it!" etc.

[Lyth]

It's somewhat amusing when you realise that Dark Arts was probably the inspiration for Shinten, and now Shinten seems to be the inspiration for Edge of Shadow.

There were a few issues with Dark Arts. If you look at most of the Heavensward oGCDs, they were fairly short animation locks that flowed extremely well into the next GCD, creating a nearly seamless stream of attacks. Dark Arts is not. It's a bit like a 'wind-up' to punctuate the fact that the next attack is going to be a big one. So when you're forced to re-apply it after every GCD, it ends up making combat quite choppy. I don't know what the animation locks are like on the new EoS and FoS. I suspect that the 'flow' between GCDs and oGCDs is going to be a major factor in whether I like this rework or not.

The other issue is that with the removal of Darkside's MP drain, you ended up dealing with large swings in MP with a relatively small MP carrying capacity. So there was also this constant pressure to use Dark Arts to keep your MP in check. I think that when you take into account the fact that MP has been standardised to 10k across the board, the rate of MP generation doesn't seem unreasonable. The ability cost makes sense as well - when you factor in the Dark Arts proc and a MP storage capacity of three EoS/FoS, you've got enough space in reserve for burst purposes. I would have liked to have an ability with an MP cost in the 1k range which I could use to "tread water" just shy of max MP, but I think that's a minor point.

I don't really see the main draw of playing the job at the moment, though. The one thing that Heavensward and Stormblood had in common is that DRK felt fast. And now we're faced with a Riddle of Fire style gameplay change. But if we're going to be hitting slower and harder, are we the purpleflames equivalent to WAR's angryflames? There has to be more to it.

It's interesting seeing other iterations of DRK being brought up in this thread, like FFT WotL and Bravely Default. I personally think that FFT had the best representations of PLD and DRK respectively, without them necessarily being named as such. I really like the fact that PLD now has a proper suite of holy themed abilities that would make Agrias proud. I feel that DRK could be significantly be improved on if it actually committed to the resource stealing approach of Gafgarion and the Dark Knight job that was later built off of him in the remake.

I've said this before, but abilities like Bloodspiller and Quietus have the potential to be so much more than just Fell Cleave and Decimate knockoffs. They don't have to have the highest potency. They don't have to have guaranteed Critical Direct Hits attached. Have them steal some HP, have them steal some MP. Create interplay between your HP, MP, and blood.

Do you want to know one thing that a lot of people can agree on? SB DRK in AoE was pretty awesome. Pop TBN, negate some damage, gain some blood. Fuel that blood into Delirium, gain some more MP and blood through Blood Weapon. Use Quietus to convert some of that blood to MP, and steal back some more blood while you're at it. Pour that MP into Abyssal Drain. Too much MP? Blow some off into DA Dark Passenger, or maybe DA Quietus. HP getting a bit on the low side? DA Abyssal Drain, back up to full. But don't worry. TBN is back again, and you're taking no damage. It's an endless alchemy of HP, MP, and blood that flows from one form to another, defying the law of equivalent exchange at every turn. Do you know what was the biggest failing of SB DRK? You couldn't do this in single target.

In fact, I daresay that if you could make this happen in Shadowbringers, even Living Dead wouldn't feel as bad.

[Danelo]

"Do you know what was the biggest failing of SB DRK? You couldn't do this in single target.

In fact, I daresay that if you could make this happen in Shadowbringers, even Living Dead wouldn't feel as bad."

Last three sentences. Why don't they build on what worked? It felt rewarding once you got it down. Omni-tanks leveled DRK just for dungeon content bc it was the king at sustained AoE.

[Valic]

I didn't even play DRK in HW and I can already agree it was better back then.... or ya know, more original.

[RyuDragnier]

DRK was definitely better in HW. Rather than just spamming DA for almost every attack to avoid capping out on MP, you were instead constantly losing MP so using it was a tactical move on your part. You had to actually think on when it was best to use it...plus it was mostly used for cooldowns, making it more of a defensive option than the offensive option it became in SB (a move which made me hate DA).