Let's Talk

[347SPECTRE]

I've seen this brought up a couple times in this thread, but a healer in a 24 man needs to concentrate on their own group unless both healers bite the dust in another alliance. They also need to work with their cohealer so that overheals are kept to a minimum. There's also the point that the party doesn't need to be at 100% hp 100% of the time, you're wasting mp trying to do so.

[ElroyDrundan]

In 24 man I will tend to keep Medica 2 going most of the time. There is of course some over healing, but I found having that regen up means I don't have to babysit folks. It can also buy time if folks do something stupid. I keep a regen on the tank regardless of which group he is in.

After that I i mostly heal with oGCDs when I can. When there are the periods of heavy raid wide damage I will make sure that Medica 2 is up, then AoE heal to get folks out of danger and let the regen finish them up. I try and dps as much as I can but if the other healer is a bit more aggressive with their dps, I will usually crack first and heal . What I have found is even those healers more committed to dps than me will always insta cast rez so it all works out.

I have had some bad co-healers though. Like on the last boss on the current 24 man, the phase with heavy AOE dmg where we all stack up. I have seen a few healers casting cure 2 during that phase .

The only time having a bad healer is really an issue is the doom phase on the one 24man boss where we fight in the ring around it? That can be a bit stressful trying to get everyone healed back up in time and getting the tank topped off if I don't have any instants available...

I do agree with what folks have said. You really don't know what they other healer is doing if you aren't seeing fight statistics. I haven't often though one of the healers wasn't doing much but when I check I find out they were doing just fine, they were probably just managing their oGCD heals better than I was .

[HyoMinPark]

The only time having a bad healer is really an issue is the doom phase on the one 24man boss where we fight in the ring around it? That can be a bit stressful trying to get everyone healed back up in time and getting the tank topped off if I don't have any instants available...

Some advice for Cleansing Strike if you have a deadbeat co-healer: on WHM, you can save Largesse + Thin Air, and generally get the party topped off with 2 casts of Cure III (most groups tend to be pretty good about stacking). I usually try to keep Tetra for the tank, as the autos they take during may cause the double Cure IIIs to not top them off. Otherwise, Cure I or II also work. On AST, I save Earthly Star. You can drop it during the second explosion TGC does right on the part where your party normally stands for things. By the time Cleansing Strike hits, it should be cooked and you can manually pop it for Stellar Explosion. In addition, Lightspeed + Largesse Helios should help get most to full, with Essential or a Lady of Crowns (should you have one) going on the tank. SCH, I admit I don’t play very often, but I have seen Indom + ET Succor to generally get most up to full, with a Lustrate on the tank.

Personally, I’m not fond of mechanics like this, as I don’t think they really “challenge healers”, and they seem to promote overhealing as opposed to anything else. I haven’t been a fan since Exdeath’s White Hole in o4s, but the developers seem to love them this expansion.


As for knowing what your other healer is doing, if I notice slack, I tend to watch them. It’s easy enough to judge what they are doing by just that, not necessarily using 3rd party tools—those help for deeper analysis, but on the fly feels for what they’re up to are usually satisfied by just watching their motions.

[ElroyDrundan]

Some advice for Cleansing Strike if you have a deadbeat co-healer: on WHM, you can save Largesse + Thin Air, and generally get the party topped off with 2 casts of Cure III (most groups tend to be pretty good about stacking). I usually try to keep Tetra for the tank, as the autos they take during may cause the double Cure IIIs to not top them off. Otherwise, Cure I or II also work. On AST, I save Earthly Star. You can drop it during the second explosion TGC does right on the part where your party normally stands for things. By the time Cleansing Strike hits, it should be cooked and you can manually pop it for Stellar Explosion. In addition, Lightspeed + Largesse Helios should help get most to full, with Essential or a Lady of Crowns (should you have one) going on the tank. SCH, I admit I don’t play very often, but I have seen Indom + ET Succor to generally get most up to full, with a Lustrate on the tank.

Personally, I’m not fond of mechanics like this, as I don’t think they really “challenge healers”, and they seem to promote overhealing as opposed to anything else. I haven’t been a fan since Exdeath’s White Hole in o4s, but the developers seem to love them this expansion.


As for knowing what your other healer is doing, if I notice slack, I tend to watch them. It’s easy enough to judge what they are doing by just that, not necessarily using 3rd party tools—those help for deeper analysis, but on the fly feels for what they’re up to are usually satisfied by just watching their motions.

Good points on how to compensate for cleansing strike. The issue I usually have is I wasn't aware until that point that the other healer was crap because I was just covering the healing, and then the first one hits, and I'm scrambling to top folks off. It is also probably more of a case of OMG OMG time is ticking when the reality is I have enough time if I don't do anything stupid . Though when grouping with my warrior friend who has tons of HP, getting him topped off with out an instas available is a bit closer to the wire as the AoEs for the group will not come close to topping him off. No one ever dies but I do feel the pressure more.

[Loki]

It's too damn rare to find a real co-healer in PF cause imo one of the main trouble is, most of people doesn't care about teamwork and plays in their corner like they were with some NPCs.

And it will be even worse with Shadowbringers cause 3 healers will have the same skills/effects so we can say goodbye to the complementarity.

Before, having 2 SCHs wasn't a trouble each of them had a diffrent fairy, now it won't be the case anymore and their skills will be wasted, 2 ASTs can still work, AST/SCH too but all those changes won't help for general teamwork.

[PondHollow]

The OP is rather difficult to believe.

[Uriel_Kross]

I firmly believe this is why they are changing the healing classes, I see the same things. Healers not healing even when being the only healer in the party because they are so focused on dealing damage. Tanks running dungeons in dps stance again because they are focused on damage. I believe Yoshi and the team is trying to bring healers and tanks back to basics because of these things.

[MintnHoney]

I believe Yoshi and the team is trying to bring healers and tanks back to basics because of these things.

If you think that's what they're doing with Tanks, you should review the changes once more. In truth, they're enabling tanks to continue with this focus.

Additionally, the focus on damage isn't shifting by any of these changes. The only thing the changes proposed to healers does, is make the process feel more laborious than it already does.

[Loki]

I firmly believe this is why they are changing the healing classes, I see the same things. Healers not healing even when being the only healer in the party because they are so focused on dealing damage. Tanks running dungeons in dps stance again because they are focused on damage. I believe Yoshi and the team is trying to bring healers and tanks back to basics because of these things.

And don't forget the DPS who don't DPS when you make more dps than them with a healer job.

You are just talking about worst players and fortunatly everyone doesn't play like that. This kind of player thinks it's a solo game and doesn't care about others.

[Beelhi]

I firmly believe this is why they are changing the healing classes, I see the same things. Healers not healing even when being the only healer in the party because they are so focused on dealing damage. Tanks running dungeons in dps stance again because they are focused on damage. I believe Yoshi and the team is trying to bring healers and tanks back to basics because of these things.

That's just a bad healer. The same way a tank doing the entire dungeon in dps stance is a bad tank. They don't care and probably only wanted a fast queue.
Both you and OP are basing everything on your experiences. The same way i can say i rarely meet tanks or healers not doing their jobs. I rarely have healers that don't heal to the point where we die over and over and over. What i suspect is that you meet healers that don't constantly top you off and then heal you up just in time making you think they dont' heal because you're on the brink of death now and then. If anything that's a good healer that know the content.