Going to the same route as WoW. The game is TOO easy

[DragynDance]

The problem with WoW wasn't that content was too easy. It had varying levels of difficulty, and you climb as high as you have fun doing, just like in ff14. The problem with WoW was the sheer amount of RNG and grind involved/ FF14 rewards you pretty adequately for being able to go above casual difficulty, whereas WoW rewards you based on a dice roll regardless of what difficulty you're doing.

[NekoNova]

Everyone i talked to who played during titan ex release told me always the same thing, the difficulty wasn't the mechanics, but rather the ping issues many players faced. Walking out of the aoe and still getting hit....

For some of us, these are still daily struggles in any fight where there's a chance to be knocked off the platform
And it's really not my Internet that's having issues

[Lersayil]

Everyone i talked to who played during titan ex release told me always the same thing, the difficulty wasn't the mechanics, but rather the ping issues many players faced. Walking out of the aoe and still getting hit....

Yep, even with twitch perfect reactions I've been knocked off sometimes even when I appeared to be out of the area by cast end. Not having issues like this nowadays though, so either the connection improved, cast time became longer, or both.

[Beatrice]

The problem with WoW wasn't that content was too easy. It had varying levels of difficulty, and you climb as high as you have fun doing, just like in ff14. The problem with WoW was the sheer amount of RNG and grind involved/ FF14 rewards you pretty adequately for being able to go above casual difficulty, whereas WoW rewards you based on a dice roll regardless of what difficulty you're doing.

This is a great point. Mythic+ dungeons can get really dicey, Heroic and Mythic raids gave a pretty good challenge too. I feel like a lot of FFXIV players who complain about FFXIV becoming like WoW haven't actually played WoW at all.

I remember getting Titanforged gear for doing a World Quest in WoW that was better than gear I had gotten from a Mythic+ that had obnoxious affixes to it. That's the big problem former WoW players have with WoW. When you can get super good gear from something as easy as a world quest, it begins to negate the point of raiding to get good gear.

People are necessarily leaving WoW because there's NO challenges to be had. It's just the Titanforge stuff makes doing the challenges pointless.

[Halivel]

Yes gaming is more "mainstream" nowadays which leads to more people with less time to play, but mmorpg's were always games in which you had to invest a huge amount of time, devs trying to cater more and more to the casual 1-2h a day player base is the reason why most mmorpg's or games in general are getting more and more easy and boring. If you don't have time for time demanding games, don't play them and play single player/co-op or fps games where you can play 2-4 rounds in 2h and then log off. Instead of playing games which fit your available time, people demand everything to be changed to fit them... I think OP does have a point, even if i don't agree with everything he wrote.

FF14 was "1-2h per day" game long ago, though. I saw it since 2.16 when I started to play till today. And most likely will be like this until its last day.

It's not only about mainstream. There was an interview and I will find it, but for now will just exlpain Yoshida's statements in my own words: yes, MMO demands time. But biggest part of community has not this time anymore. Very same players who in 2000 came home from school and just played, now have work, families, friends with whom they go drink sake in izakaya, etc etc etc. The amount of time that players can spend in games without moving is much less than it was 10 years ago. Because the main auditory is mostly the same as 10 years ago and it gets older and has less time to play in comparison to students. (Especially when we talk about Japanese players, who work much more than average European or American. And even if they are not the biggest part of playerbase, they are homemarket and set main course for the game.)

Position "if you don't have time - don't play" will just kill the game online in the result. BTW, in case with FF14 those who "demand change game to fit them" are those, who states that game should demand more time, not those, who play less. Because, as I said, FF14 was "low-online-demanding" since at least the ARR. And even had various restrictions to prevent "overtime-online" in 1.0 as far as I know from old reviews that I watched back then, but not sure.

In SB the devs did delete a lot of ability's from the classes to make them easier(thou they reasoned with "button bloat") and thus changed the way some classes were played, *cough* drk *cough*. Now with ShB again.

See nothing negative in these changes. Button bloat would be insane already in 4.0 without removing old skills from 2.0 and 3.0 and it would be another hot topic for hassles right here on OF with every-day thread "why so many skills". And if jobs do not change - playerbase, again, will start whine "why nothing new in playstyle!?" In fact, players just always will find something to be mad about, and it doesn't matter if you did something or if you didn't do something.

[Maneesha]

FF14 always was "1-2h per day" game, though. Since 2.16 when I startet to play till today. And most likely will be like this until its last day.

It's not only about mainstream. There was an interview and I will find it, but for now will just exlpain Yoshida's statements in my own words: yes, MMO demands time. But biggest part of community has not this time anymore. Very same players who in 2000 came home from school and just played, now have work, families, friends with whom they go drink sake in izakaya, etc etc etc. The amount of time that players can spend in games without moving is much less than it was 10 years ago. Because the main auditory is mostly the same as 10 years ago and it gets older and has less time to play in comparison to students. (Especially when we talk about Japanese players, who work much more than average European or American. And even if they are not the biggest part of playerbase, they are homemarket and set main course for the game.)

Position "if you don't have time - don't play" will just kill the game online in the result.



See nothing negative in these changes. Button bloat would be insane already in 4.0 without removing old skills from 2.0 and 3.0 and it would be another hot topic for hassles right here on OF with every-day thread "why so many skills". And if jobs do not change - playerbase, again, will start whine "why nothing new in playstyle!?" In fact, players just always will find something to be mad about, and it doesn't matter if you did something or if you didn't do something.

Remember the days where publishers used to state that 200k active player base was enough to maintain a mmorpg?.. Yeah the good old days, now if its not 3mil+ its a failure and should be shut down... Ugh.. lets not get there, a whole different topic.

As for button bloat, there are other ways to address this issue. For example a combo-system/skill evolution system, similar to warrior skills. You activate infuriate and your fell cleave gets transformed into a inner chaos. Both staying on the same slot position on your hot bars, not needing additional one or the devs could make more use of the combo-system which we have in pvp, maybe with some slight changes to it too..

[Halivel]

As for button bloat, there are other ways to address this issue. For example a combo-system/skill evolution system, similar to warrior skills. You activate infuriate and your fell cleave gets transformed into a inner chaos. Both staying on the same slot position on your hot bars, not needing additional one or the devs could make more use of the combo-system which we have in pvp, maybe with some slight changes to it too..

I think they said their no about this in PvE some time ago, though they could do it in the future. It was a popular question after PvP rework.

It is doable, but will lead to complete rework for all jobs again. They will need to get rid of all combos that have mutual skills in them, otherwise there is no big sense in it. Also, I almost hear how people will scream about it "now I need to press only 1-1-1 to complete the combo, GAME IS TOO EASY!". Not to mention jobs that technically don't have combos and who are out of this system as a result (at least now).

[MOZZYSTAR]

It is true that most of the game isn't very hard, but then a large majority of players do not want a very hard game.
For those who do want a challenge, there is always the Savage and Ultimate fights - that's why they exist.

I'd like to know who this majority is, because I haven't seen any complaints about difficulty outside of people with physical handicaps (who I would expect to be in the minority).


WoW vs FFXIV is pretty much an age-old comparison. Back in 2.0+, I remember there being an influx of WoW players complaining about the level grinding being "too hard," so the FFXIV players were basically all "go home to WoW." I've never played WoW, personally, so I don't know if it is that much easier... but I honestly really don't want to see an easier, streamlined, or simplified MSQ for FFXIV and I'm a casual player (as in I've never done savages and I've only done extremes a couple times.). Some trials, like the Chrysalis and Shinryu when they both originally came out, were very difficult for me... and once I/my party beat them, it was very satisfying. Felt accomplished. Most of the casuals I've met in FCs and whatnot felt the same way.

[Jeeqbit]

There is virtually no challenge outside of savage raids.

MMORPGs are not meant to be particularly challenging. They are meant to be Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Games; social sandboxes to roleplay and make friends in.

They do happen to have challenging content in the form of extreme, savage and ultimate, for those who want challenge. Not everyone does.

There is little community aspect since everything is instanced

There is plenty of community, so perhaps you didn't notice it. Take a trip to a major city and chat in /shout. Join the novice network. Start hunting and make friends with all of the hunters in the open world. Join linkshells and free companies. Participate in roleplaying events. Join discords. Join party finders for casual content and make friends with the people you meet. Attend a fanfest. Post on these very forums.

[Wigett]

I disagree, i dont think this game is going the same route as WoW. its not easy, and in wow in some areas is not easy also. crafting is much simpler, and less involved, but FFXIV has and will always be much more involved, less. easy than WoW. from a raid instance they both have learning curves and easy is as easy does. u can get out what you put into anything. the community in FFXIV is better imo, as is alot of the game, hence why i left wow a while back, the raiding in mythic can be very challenging , as can savage. I disagree with the same route.. and the too easy statement. just my observations