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  1. #1
    Player
    Big-Isaac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    98
    Character
    J'enna Vale
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100

    Tanks and spam windows

    As of ShB, 75% of the tanks (i.e. all of them sans GNB) have mechanics that lead to windows where you spam the same button multiple times

    - PLD still has Req into HS, but now also gets RA into Atonement x3
    - WAR still has IR into Fel Cleave
    - DRK has the reworked Delirium, which has you spam either Bloodspiller or Quietus

    What I'm wondering is... why? Do people really like these types of spam windows or something? Speaking for myself, I got over the hype of Req>HS pretty quickly at the start of SB. There's just nothing special about popping a CD and then hammering the same button for 10ish seconds.

    The ironic thing about the DRK change in particular is that in SB, I actually found dropping a Quietus or a DA Dark Passenger on a big trash pack significantly more satisfying than spamming HS in single target on my PLD.
    It has a niche crunchy feeling to it, and it's over long before it can get boring or stale.

    IMO, if the mechanics worked differently to where you take all the damage from those 3-6 hits and instead packed them into one giant ass Fel Cleave, Holy Spirit or Bloodspiller, it would feel far more satisfying. Make it so it requires a fair amount of setup, so it doesn't start feeling routine, and let you drop a nuke when the conditions are right

    What do you think?
    (7)

  2. #2
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,479
    Character
    Tal Young
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Dark Knights inner delirium is rubbish, just a boring hit button x5 ability. Brain-dead way of adding burst to the job I guess.

    Paladin at least mixes it up by having ranged cleaves and flicking back and forth between magic and physical bursts.

    On the whole, I'm sick of spam windows.
    (8)

  3. #3
    Player
    gman1311's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    156
    Character
    Greg Eugen
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 80
    I find the spam window fun,but thats just me.
    (8)

  4. #4
    Player
    DRKoftheAzure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Gridania and Ul'dah (because Ishgard not allowed to be starting city-state :c)
    Posts
    1,136
    Character
    Strea Leonhart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    10 seconds of pressing 1 button 5 times in single target gets boring really fast... only WAR should have that... DRK doesn't need it, in fact you could make Dark Arts into a burst window that lets you press 6 combo action buttons with 200-300 additional potency on all spells and weapon and it would actually look way better than Fell Cleave spam...
    (1)

  5. #5
    Player
    Kalise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,784
    Character
    Kalise Relanah
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Isaac View Post
    Do people really like these types of spam windows or something?
    Some people actually seem to.

    I've seen some responses on these forums where people expressed that they specifically love to spam one skill over and over, so long as that skill is putting up big numbers.

    Heck, some people want more of it, like apparently some Samurai want to be able to just spam Midare Setsugekka all the time.

    I don't understand the appeal myself. It's not fun, its not interactive and after a short while the novelty wears off...

    Quote Originally Posted by Big-Isaac View Post
    What do you think?
    I think it comes down to them wanting all Tanks to be able to burst. Since one of the things that's making Warrior meta is that they can capitalize better on burst windows and are less affected by boss downtime which is giving them higher DPS in encounters (While on paper, all Tanks are equal, if not DRK/PLD being able to get ahead of Warrior)

    So, the solution they came up with, was to not remove Trick Attack - The major issue making burst windows exist (Also, making NIN a "Mandatory" job in compositions). Not to stop designing encounters with forced downtime due to phase transitions - The major issue that neuters sustained DPS. Not to tweak Inner Release so that it was less potent and shift Warrior's damage to being more spread throughout their kit (So EVERY attack feels chunkier and good to use, rather than 5 attacks per 90s...)

    No, their solution was to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V on Inner Release.

    So now we have Inner Release, Holy Release and Dark Release. So everyone can ungabunga all day every day! Yaaaaay...

    In before 6.0 when we get Gun Release and GNB gets a completely new and never before seen mechanic in which they spam a skill 5 times in a row after using a CD! Wow, so new, much innovate!
    (12)

  6. #6
    Player
    DRKoftheAzure's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Gridania and Ul'dah (because Ishgard not allowed to be starting city-state :c)
    Posts
    1,136
    Character
    Strea Leonhart
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    Some people actually seem to.

    I've seen some responses on these forums where people expressed that they specifically love to spam one skill over and over, so long as that skill is putting up big numbers.

    Heck, some people want more of it, like apparently some Samurai want to be able to just spam Midare Setsugekka all the time.
    They should be playing BLM instead if that's the case...
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    Gruntler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    317
    Character
    Kawaiian Punch
    World
    Faerie
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalise View Post
    No, their solution was to Ctrl-C Ctrl-V on Inner Release.
    Holy Spirit spam came first.

    What's next 'dark knight stole warrior's gap closer'?

    'paladin stole warrior's aoe shield'?

    '
    (2)

  8. #8
    Player
    Jandor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3,479
    Character
    Tal Young
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntler View Post
    Holy Spirit spam came first.

    What's next 'dark knight stole warrior's gap closer'?

    'paladin stole warrior's aoe shield'?
    Wasn't 4.0 WAR doing 6 fell cleaves in a row?

    I don't know, it didn't live long to be fair.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jandor; 06-21-2019 at 08:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Reynhart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    4,605
    Character
    Reynhart Kristensen
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Gruntler View Post
    Holy Spirit spam came first.
    They both came at the exact same time, and Delirium shares more similarities with Inner Release than with Requiescat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jandor View Post
    I don't know, it didn't live long to be fair.
    You can still do 6 Fell Cleave in a row right now (Or even 7), it didn't die...but you can also fit one Onslaught and one Upheaval in the middle of that
    (2)
    Last edited by Reynhart; 06-21-2019 at 09:04 PM.
    Y: I usually compare FFXIV with a theme park, but the Forbidden Land of Eureka won’t be a place where everyone would want to go. For example, there are people who don’t want to go to horror houses because they don’t see the point in getting scared on purpose. For example, on a date, the boyfriend might want to invite the girlfriend to go the horror house, but the girlfriend just doesn’t seem to find it fun. In other words, it’s not like everyone wants to go to the horror house, but there are people who just love the adrenalin rush they get from it. Think of Eureka as something like that.

  10. #10
    Player
    Satarn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    522
    Character
    K'rheya Tia
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gunbreaker Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Reynhart View Post
    They both came at the exact same time, and Delirium shares more similarities with Inner Release than with Requiescat.
    That is untrue. Original 4.0-4.1 Inner Release only halved your gauge costs for 20 seconds at a 120 second cd, nothing else. WAR also had old Berserk at the time - 30% dmg buff lasting 20 seconds at 60 second cd. That created 2 different burst windows(zerk and zerk+IR) which both required gauge management for preparation during downtime and were more involved themselves, as you had to generate some gauge with your combo during burst in order to maximize damage output.

    Requiscat was indeed the original "spam one button 5 times" buff and older WARs have drawn the comparison with new IR as soon as 4.2 preliminary patch notes were shown.
    (5)

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