Why I think Shadowbringers Dark Knight is not going to be fun...

[DRKoftheAzure]

Offensively; It's basically more WAR than DRK but without the guaranteed Direct Crits and Defensively; worse than WAR AND PLD because of being weak against physical damage, and as for Utility; has nothing to make people want to choose DRK over WAR or PLD...

My list of problems with of Shadowbringers DRK and how they could have improved upon them those skills;



-Removal of Sole Survivor when it could have been buffed to apply recovery effect to party within range of the DRK 15-25 yalms, as well as apply a vulnerability up effect that applies to enemies in range of 5 yalms when target dies


-Power Slash combo could have been reworked to maintain Darkside


-Scourge could have been re-implemented to be the start of Souleater combo, Scourge applies a damage over time AND healing over time effect, remove MP refresh effect on Syphon Strike and instead have it restores HP on hit and applies heal shield, and Souleater applies heal shield, all effects last 15 secs


-Darkside could have had haste effect when you get it and have Blood Weapon as a trait that adds HP and MP restore every time you deal damage to an enemy you deal damage to enemies and doubles the effectiveness of Scourge, Syphon Strike, and Souleater effects


-Removal of Dark Passenger makes no sense but keeping it and putting it on GCD and it combos into a new AoE skill "Dark Bane" would add more depth to DRKs AoE rotation(refreshes Darkside)


-Abyssal Drain being a cooldown is going to feel bad, but instead it should have combo into what should have been the level 80 skill "Tenebrous Blast" (this is the AoE HP recovery combo


-Dark Arts should have had recast increased to 15 seconds and boosted all of DRK spells by 200 potency, reduce recast of spells to 1.5 secs last 15 seconds, and effect end upon use of Tenebrous Blast


-Magic tanks and physical tanks are creating more balancing problems much like resistance debuffs did...


-Carve and Spit needs a shorter recast or have MP refresh effect removed and increase potency to 600-700


-Salted Earth re-cast was fine in Stormblood


-Delirium needs to be a trait that guarantees Direct Crits for Darkside


-The Blackest Night Shield was fine in Stormblood with %, either remove proc effects or reduce effectiveness


-Living Shadow is a glorified Salted Earth... that happens to be a pet... just make it really powerful single target damage over time effect... or have it be trait that buffs Sole Survivor that makes it inflict 100-300 potency with 100 potency of damage over time...


-And Living Dead is still the worse invulnerability due to one sentence; "If HP is not restored to 100%, you will be KO'd."



EDIT: some of those "fanfiction skills" I listed actually came from Dissidia: Final Fantasy, so blame Square-Enix for making those names not me...


Vulnerability up on Sole Survivor is going to be overpowered as someone pointed that out and Sole Survivor effect would still be weaker if the target didn't die.


"Dark Bane" is basically GCD combo so that DRK can still use Flood of Shadow as oGCD.


Delirium is basically problem child of DRK right now along with Blackblood gauge and maybe The Blackest Night...


The reason why I didn't mention Edge of Shadow is because it is oGCD that costs MP.


Scourge having healing over time and heal shields on Syphon Strike and Souleater is to make up for the fact their mitigation against physical attacks is really bad, also Blood Weapon doubling potencies of of healing over time and heal shields might be over kill...


And as for why Dark Arts would have the weird effect I proposed, I forgot to elaborate as to why I though it like that(being tired and getting ready for bed will do that); basically the following spells would have been Unleash into Stalwart Soul(MP recovery), Abyssal Drain into Tenebrous Blast(HP recovery), and Dark Passenger into Dark Bane(Darkside refresh), since making spell GCD for tanks to scale off of skill speed is impossible because of spaghetti code hence why I proposed that(just look at RDM weaponskills and how they don't scale off of spell speed and need the gauge to workaround that as well doubling as burst). As for duration I did not do math right because 10 would have been enough to get all of your spells into a burst window and trying to balance around Blackblood and MP as resources for burst is REALLY causing problems so Dark Arts being a 60 Second recast seems better than 3k MP with 15 second recast now that I have thought about it and read some of the other posts.


Also Direct Crits are also causing balancing problems...


EDIT2: The start of the topic is basically speculation


EDIT3: I just realized from the first edit that I mentioned Dark Arts could have also affected weapon skills to be 1.5 recast and also realized that that it could have also boosted potency of oGCDs by 200 as well for those single target rotations as well as AoE rotations(I would also make it affect role action but that would probably be WAY OP)...

EDIT4: After much thought it might be a good idea to upgrade Living Dead into Living Shadow, which removes everything everyone hates about Living Dead by making it a full heal and impervious to most attacks for 10 seconds

[gman1311]

I think Dark Knight will be fun 5.0.

[Kyni]

I think Dark Knight will be fun 5.0.

And why do you think that? As somebody, who thinks the new DRK looks rather boring to play, I'm generally curious about it. And no this isn't a sarcastic remark or anything, I really want to know if I'm missing something, because i would prefer it to stay on DRK as my main for lore/looks reasons, but it just looks so broing and uneventful (outside of the massiv burst window every minute) to me.

[gman1311]

And why do you think that? As somebody, who thinks the new DRK looks rather boring to play, I'm generally curious about it. And no this isn't a sarcastic remark or anything, I really want to know if I'm missing something, because i would prefer it to stay on DRK as my main for lore/looks reasons, but it just looks so broing and uneventful (outside of the massiv burst window every minute) to me.

I just think it’s going to be fun, nothing else to it.

[Greywolfamakir]

I think Dark Knight will be fun 5.0.

+1

/10 chars

[ReiMakoto]

I just think it’s going to be fun, nothing else to it.

I mean no offence when I say this is a purely cop out answer. Even just a "I enjoy the aesthetics" or "im a fan of inner release style mechanics" or anything surface level like that would have been a decent response

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Offensively; It's basically more WAR than DRK but without the guaranteed Direct Crits and Defensively; worse than WAR AND PLD because of being weak against physical damage, and as for Utility; has nothing to make people want to choose DRK over WAR or PLD...

I agree offensively, but given TBN being upped to 25% and the mitigation suite being more or less adjusted that every tank gets an "Intervention" cooldown for OT purposes, I fail to see how DRK is going to struggle against other tanks in self-mitigation. And for party mitigation, TBN is also 25% on target now, Reprisal still exists and Dark Missionary being magical matters little since very few AOE attacks are actually physical. Arguably, I think with all job changes combined, we have too much AOE mitigation available to actually care.

My list of problems with of Shadowbringers DRK and how they could have improved upon them those skills;


-Removal of Sole Survivor when it could have been buffed to apply recovery effect to party within range of the DRK 15-25 yalms, as well as apply a vulnerability up effect that applies to enemies in range of 5 yalms when target dies

Not gonna lie, I'd be fine with what we have now.

-Power Slash combo could have been reworked to maintain Darkside

Not a fan of copypaste Storm's Eye, but the main point of Powerslash repurposed still stands, yeah.

-Scourge could have been re-implemented to be the start of Souleater combo, Scourge applies a damage over time AND healing over time effect, remove MP refresh effect on Syphon Strike and instead have it restores HP on hit and applies heal shield, and Souleater applies heal shield, all effects last 15 secs

Scourge nostalgia aside, not a fan of second combo starters akin to True Thrust vs. Impulse Drive, and especially not with such a good effect being easily maintainable.

-Darkside could have had haste effect when you get it and have Blood Weapon as a trait that adds HP and MP restore every time you deal damage to an enemy you deal damage to enemies and doubles the effectiveness of Scourge, Syphon Strike, and Souleater effects

Yes to the Haste effect, no to everything else (including Blood Weapon trait). Azure, you are adding too much again, especially HP recovery effects. Gotta keep your healers healing you know.

-Removal of Dark Passenger makes no sense but keeping it and putting it on GCD and it combos into a new AoE skill "Dark Bane" would add more depth to DRKs AoE rotation(refreshes Darkside)

...that is literally what Flood of Shadow is though, just oGCD (more flexible).

-Abyssal Drain being a cooldown is going to feel bad, but instead it should have combo into what should have been the level 80 skill "Tenebrous Blast" (this is the AoE HP recovery combo

(what is up with all those fanfiction-like names) Abyssal Drain stand-alone would be good enough, an AOE hp lifesteal combo is again too much HP recovery. Arguably what we have now in Stormblood is still a tad much if executed well enough.

-Dark Arts should have had recast increased to 15 seconds and boosted all of DRK spells by 200 potency, reduce recast of spells to 1.5 secs last 15 seconds, and effect end upon use of Tenebrous Blast

Apart from ludicrous uptime + potency gain (hopefully insane MP cost)...only Spells, not Weaponskills?

-Magic tanks and physical tanks are creating more balancing problems much like resistance debuffs did...

See statement on first paragraph.

-

-Carve and Spit needs a shorter recast or have MP refresh effect removed and increase potency to 600-700

I take lower recast time so I actually get to press more oGCDs over higher potency tbh.

-Salted Earth re-cast was fine in Stormblood

100% this tbh.

-Delirium needs to be a trait that guarantees Direct Crits for Darkside

WAR's Inner Release is one of the strongest cooldowns in the game because of 100% DHcrits. If Darkside is meant to be maintainable, this would... actually, I let you think that for yourself.

-The Blackest Night Shield was fine in Stormblood with %, either remove proc effects or reduce effectiveness

Remove the proc while keeping mp cost and its a loss, remove proc and mp cost and it becomes a brainless cooldown. I fail to see why you want TBN to be weaker again, yet complain about DRK being physically weaker than other tanks.

-Living Shadow is a glorified Salted Earth... that happens to be a pet... just make it really powerful single target damage over time effect... or have it be trait that buffs Sole Survivor that makes it inflict 100-300 potency with 100 potency of damage over time...

Living Shadow is fine as is, just a tad flavourless when compared to NINs Bunshin.

-And Living Dead is still the worse invulnerability due to one sentence; "If HP is not restored to 100%, you will be KO'd."

Technically restoring 100% HP is just a healcheck in a timeframe and taking damage while being healed doesn't affect the remaining heal requirement. Living Dead is fine as is, Holmgang is just too available to seriously compete.

What Living Dead actually needs is a highly visible marker above the DRK's head that basically is a doom counter like in other FF games to show that Walking Dead actually got activated and is ticking down.

[Tint]

Well...

I like the slower and more methodical pace of the Grit gameplay more than the chaotic gameplay out of Grit. One combo = one Dark Arts / TBN. It also seems like that AoE'ing will be less chaotic too. So making DRK slower and more methodical sounds good to me.

However, I am not a fan of turning DRK into WAR, especially the Delirium change.

DRK lacks fluff damage mitigation and selfheals.

DRK's mitigation is "strong" against magical damage, but in realitiy he is only weak to physical damage. DRK's selfheal is "strong" in AoE situations, but in reality he is only weak in a single target situation.

Also the AoE combo looks slow and clunky. Why is the guy with the giant sword the only one who doesn't swing the sword around for AoE attacks?

Then we have the problem with the TBN shield brake and the potential loss of 500 potency and Darkside.

I am curious about how much mana we will actually have in fights, until then I can't say much about TBN and Darkside uptime I guess...


But DRK looks like a strong tank. TBN is probably the most powerfull on demand mitigation cooldown, it's also the best single target defense skill you can give to another person.

Dark Missionary is also good, even if it is magic mitigation only, since AoE attacks are magic based anyway. Maybe the skill is not as strong as the shields of PLD and WAR, but it comes at no cost at all.

And with Dark Mind and the short recast of Living Dead (does it have the shortest recast now out of all ultimate CD's?) and of course TBN, wich stacks nicely with %-mitigation, DRK will have a powerfull mitigation kit against tankbusters.

[Jeeqbit]

• GNBs would complain if DRK could apply a regen to everyone, while they can only apply it to one person. Applying a Vulnerability Up to enemies would make DRK a required meta and they want to move away from metas.
• Scourge being apart of a combo I am alright with, but they might just get accused of copying PLD's Goring Blade. Constant HoT would probably be OP, especially when both Syphon Strike and Souleater apply a shield AND restore HP. On their own all of the heals and shields would have to be extremely weak to be balanced or it would be the king of all tanks that can solo 8-person content. Removing MP regen makes no sense for an MP-centric tank.
• Darkside having haste would be alright, but odd for a Job that specialises in long, heavy blades that would probably slow most people down. Blood Weapon further increasing HP and doubling the effectiveness of the aforementioned heals and shields would make them twice as overpowered. Restoring MP is alright though.
• Dark Passenger was basically rebranded Flood of Shadow and refreshes Darkside, so it wasn't really removed, was it? It's just a rework of it.
• I too will miss Abyssal Drain spam, but as long as we have an AoE combo? Abyssal Drain looks and functions similar to Tenebrous Blast from Dissidia, so maybe they just used a different name for it. At least we can use it once.
• I too will miss Dark Arts and wouldn't mind it back in any form. Your solution would increase the potency of spells, but our spells are AoEs and Unmend. The rest are weaponskills or actions, so Dark Arts would only affect AoEs. They would most likely have to reduce potencies elsewhere to compensate for it as well.
• If there is one magic tank, and all the others can mitigate physical or both, then they will always complement eachother in a raid or trial. If there is one physical tank, and all the others can mitigate magic or both, they will always complement eachother in a raid or trial.
• Why does Carve and Spit's potency and cooldown matter? As long as the tank as a whole is doing the damage the other ones are.
• SE obviously disagrees that Salted Earth's recast is able to stay the same in Shadowbringers.
• I'm indifferent about Delirium guaranteeing Direct Crits. But some people will just complain it's copying WAR even more.
• A better solution might be to grant Dark Arts when the shield dips below 70%.
• You'd really make Living Shadow a DoT? That seems boring and like every other job in comparison.
• I agree about Living Dead. Living Dead and Walking Dead both need to be 20 seconds to be effective during big pulls. It usually expires before I would reach 1 HP or when I enter Walking Dead the healer thinks I'm dead and only realises I've used it when I've been surviving with 1 HP for 8 seconds and doesn't heal me in time.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

• You'd really make Living Shadow a DoT? That seems boring and like every other job in comparison.

Hate to break it to you, but Living Shadow is in fact just a DoT / autoturret ticking seven times for 400 potency.