Let's talk about Holmgang, is it stronger, as strong, or...

[Hierro]

NERF IT TO THE GROUND.

Not gonna happen, and there ain't nothing you can do about it.

[fumofu]

In ShB you can activate it without a target and get just the invincibility without binding yourself.

Thank you for clarifying that. It's a really good boost for this skill.

These points are all objectively false. Very first point... you seem to be under the impression Holmgang sets your HP to 1. it does not. it prevents you from being reduced below 1. you can still keep your tank stance thrill of battle 14k HP. unlike GNB.

Very specific EX and Raid fights? you mean like... all of them?
with DRKs lopsided kit forcing DRK to use LD as a standard cooldown? Where the power of hallowed is relegated to niche and specific strats for specific and niche fights? PLD is the specific and niche. DRK isnt even in the race. Holmgang is the gold standard.

Low cooldown doesnt make it better?
Holmgang's low CD makes it the best tank invuln by a country mile in all the ways that matters for an invuln. This is almost purely because of it's short CD. This isnt a matter of simple opinion. this has been the literal reasoning for raiding and EX for years now since HW. This isnt a mentality. this isnt a playstyle. this has objective data and is empirical fact at this point. It's low cooldown is so powerful that is ceases to compete with the other invulns. it's competing with abilities that have the same cooldown; shadow wall and sentinel. Is holmgang better or worse than those for mitigation?

Holmgang fails to keep you alive and hallowed helps you survive?
You're still not going to 1 hp, and even if you were, youre immune to death and can still be healed. if it takes your healer 6s to fail to notice you at 1 HP and theres an AoE under you, thats not a failing of WAR. Even in this worst case scenario, youre still alive for 6s longer than you otherwise would have. it helped you survive.
(Small edit after the fact i failed to add to this specific point: very few great WARs will do this because of DPS among other things, but if you have no incoming heals for 6s, WAR can swap to defiance, equib/thrill, inner release inner beast/steel cyclone spam, and probably wont need the heal in a dungeon setting. this isnt innate to holmgang, but just to emphasize how little being at 1 HP really matters.)

you need superman reflexes to activate it skillfully and 6sec fails to do anything meaningful?
first of all, and a major point here, Hallowed and LD both have "delay" in activating their effect. they go on cooldown, wait for a tick, and then activate. you can actually die during both effects. Holmgang, since it has a debuff element, bypasses ticks and activates immediately. you need much LESS reflexes to activate it compared to the other 2. while 6s is the least amount the things Holmgang is used for and mitigating (like tankbusters), they all, without exception, have long cast times and can be activated mid-cast. There is very little downside to using holmgang- activation speed was never one of them. it's a strength.

The only true weakness to holmgang is being rooted and it leads to some awkward fun times when misused. you know what else has wonky effects when misused? hollowed having a 7 minute cooldown while youre still taking damage and die. LD lasting for near 20s and you still die because the healer didnt notice your buff and kept you at ~50% anyway.

At least holmgang has the decency to activate and be online immediately, will pull a target to you, and ignore knockbacks. Even if it's ever wasted, its actually back up again within a dungeon run, unlike the other 2.

You have a few good points here. I wasn't aware that Holmgang activates instantly and in general I can't really recall any situtation when this skill actualy saved me in constrast to Hallowed Ground, therefore I don't even keep Holmgang in my skillbar.

Another point is about content where it might be useful. I'm talking more of a casual player perspective, that means i'm mostly doing regular dungeons and raids, sometimes ex primals. And from my pow Holmgang is more a punishing skill than useful. Can't even think of eny situation where Holmgang could be useful. And yes, i'm aware of fact that it doesn't brings hp down to 1, but that changes nothing.

Guess it's different in hard content where players needs to plan their every skill. But for casual content it's meh...

[Freyyy]

But is SuperBolide reducing HP to 1 really any different? Gunbreaker gonna die if you don't heal him just like a Dark. And do healers really have a problem topping off a tank after a tank buster? If they do, it's more a healer problem than a problem with the tank's immunity action. And although Holmgang doesn't reduce your hp to 0, you would only ever use it when you expect your hp to be reduced to zero---so in that sense it's not any different either.

I think that there's a big misunderstanding regarding Superbolide right there. Don't forget that it makes you impervious to most attacks, it doesn't just prevent your HP from going below 1 like Holm and LD. Superbolide is way closer to HG than any other invuln. When you use LD or Holmgang you're still taking damage, you just can't die. So if you get healed during their durations, then get hit again, you'll lose the HP you just got back. With Superbolide, since you're impervious to most attacks, you can get slowly healed during its 8sec duration and you won't lose any of these HP even if you get hit before the effect ends. Considering you have Aurora and Brutal Shell, it'll require less healing than any invuln besides HG. A WAR needs to be healed enough so that it survives the next auto attack right after Holmgang ends. Since he's still taking damage during the 6sec duration, you'll need to get some form of quick burst healing. A DRK will need to be healed for the amount equaling its maximum HP, so it requires a ton of healing in less than 10sec to prevent him from dying. A PLD won't need any healing, and a GNB will probably just need some regen ticks + its own self healing capabilities. It makes a big difference.

With that said, if Holmgang remains as a 3min CD only, it'll still outshine every other invuln. It trivializes too much tank busters on a tank that already has the most personal mitigation. It's bonkers.

[Lyth]

You can't defeat me.

I know, but he can.

apparently holmgang is 6 minutes at the e3 titania fight
but now they can move freely with it up

Any further sources on this?

[Kabooa]

I know, but he can.

"You're right, warriors aren't doing enough damage. Inner Release now grants persistent Nascent Chaos for the duration. Please look forward to it."

[Hierro]

"You're right, warriors aren't doing enough damage. Inner Release now grants persistent Nascent Chaos for the duration. Please look forward to it."

Watch when this actually happens.

[ForteNightshade]

You have a few good points here. I wasn't aware that Holmgang activates instantly and in general I can't really recall any situtation when this skill actualy saved me in constrast to Hallowed Ground, therefore I don't even keep Holmgang in my skillbar.

Another point is about content where it might be useful. I'm talking more of a casual player perspective, that means i'm mostly doing regular dungeons and raids, sometimes ex primals. And from my pow Holmgang is more a punishing skill than useful. Can't even think of eny situation where Holmgang could be useful. And yes, i'm aware of fact that it doesn't brings hp down to 1, but that changes nothing.

Guess it's different in hard content where players needs to plan their every skill. But for casual content it's meh...

Put it this way, with God Kefka Savage, you can completely ignore three tank busters that would otherwise do upwards of 40k+ to both tanks (you have to share it if executed properly). Hallowed Ground is only up for one. Final Omega is another example where the short CD of Holmgang lets you abuse the hell out of it whereas you only get one use of Hallowed.

Admittedly, in dungeons, Holmgang has a lot less uses. But the same could be said about Living Dead given how poorly your average DF healer reacts. That being said, I have pulled some heroics with Holmgang in dungeons before.

[NyneSwordz]

Not gonna happen, and there ain't nothing you can do about it.

She's always gonna get triggered by every post that remotely touches on warriors isn't she?

[NyneSwordz]

"You're right, warriors aren't doing enough damage. Inner Release now grants persistent Nascent Chaos for the duration. Please look forward to it."

You know, that would actually make more sense. Inner Release is supposed to be our powered up state. But our most powerful attack is supposed to be used outside of it.

Tbh, I'd prefer they make Inner Release/Inner Chaos happen during Inner Release and take away the direct crit/hit aspect and put THAT on Infuriate.

Then we can go back to early stormblood where we tried to get Infuriate and Inner Release to line up- which is sorta fun. Sorta. I know it can be annoying too, but it added something to the gameplay.

If they end up doing this, please change the Inner Chaos animation to powered up Fell Cleave like everyone wanted... not a powered up Inner Beast...

[NyneSwordz]

I think that there's a big misunderstanding regarding Superbolide right there. Don't forget that it makes you impervious to most attacks, it doesn't just prevent your HP from going below 1 like Holm and LD. Superbolide is way closer to HG than any other invuln. When you use LD or Holmgang you're still taking damage, you just can't die. So if you get healed during their durations, then get hit again, you'll lose the HP you just got back. With Superbolide, since you're impervious to most attacks, you can get slowly healed during its 8sec duration and you won't lose any of these HP even if you get hit before the effect ends. Considering you have Aurora and Brutal Shell, it'll require less healing than any invuln besides HG. A WAR needs to be healed enough so that it survives the next auto attack right after Holmgang ends. Since he's still taking damage during the 6sec duration, you'll need to get some form of quick burst healing. A DRK will need to be healed for the amount equaling its maximum HP, so it requires a ton of healing in less than 10sec to prevent him from dying. A PLD won't need any healing, and a GNB will probably just need some regen ticks + its own self healing capabilities. It makes a big difference.

With that said, if Holmgang remains as a 3min CD only, it'll still outshine every other invuln. It trivializes too much tank busters on a tank that already has the most personal mitigation. It's bonkers.

Ah... Is that so... that's pretty nifty then.