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  1. #22
    Player
    Rentahamster's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Lindblum MRD50/THM50/LNC50
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    2,823
    Character
    Renta Hamster
    World
    Sargatanas
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    Gladiator Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    You took Mega's arguement about a short airship ride and started spouting about how you can do a leve in that same amount of time. You're not refuting his position, you're making comparisons that just don't matter. Not classic straw man, but close enough.
    It's not a straw man, nor is it even "close enough".

    Mega made a statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by Mega View Post
    If you can only play for an hour, whats wrong with an 8 minute airship ride?
    He specifically asked, "what's wrong with an 8 minute airship ride". As in, "Please, I would like some feedback as to any possible negative consequences to an 8 minute airship ride".

    What I did was simple. It's called, "I answered his question".

    I gave specific examples why 8 minutes is not a trivial amount of time to a certain segment of players with specific goals in mind.

    This is what people do in a reasonable debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Some MMORPGs DO cater to casual players. Play LotRO, WoW, or Rift. Not every game needs to, however. Last time I checked, FFXI (moderated) and EvE(hardcore) were doing just fine.
    Last time I checked FF14 (the game we are talking about) is doing horribly. Telling players to play another game is not the path to a successful game. The goal is to tell players to play OUR game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post

    The problem is that even if a single gameplay mechanic doesn't really affect people who play more than casually, they add up and eventually end up watering down the experience for everyone.
    That wasn't the point I was trying to make. Let me quote myself again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rentahamster View Post
    If a gameplay mechanic can be implemented that helps out casuals, yet does nothing to impede the progress or enjoyment of the more hardcore players, there is no reason why it should not be implemented.
    In other words, If I can implement a gameplay mechanic that increases the enjoyment and playability for casuals that does not in any way affect the difficulty or enjoyment of this game for hardcore players, why shouldn't I do it? If there is no risk of "watering down" the experience, that means it's a good idea. I am of the opinion that there are many solutions available to us that can keep the basic elements of the game friendly to casuals while still giving more hardcore players a tough challenge should they choose to follow that path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abraxai View Post
    Making this game overly solo friendly is KILLING the adventure aspect, the teamplay aspect and most of all, the level of difficulty / time put into content. These NM's we have are a damned joke. MMO's aren't FOR casual players. You want casual buy a 360 and play FFXIII.
    I sympathize with your sentiment (I am a hardcore player myself), but if we want SquareEnix to have a successful product, we can't just restrict the game to just a narrow population of gamers.

    Like I said earlier, the ideal solution would be to implement a solution that gives net benefits to both the casual and hardcore niches. This is not a zero-sum situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum) where anything that benefits casual players is going to always negatively effect hardcore players equally.
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    Last edited by Rentahamster; 03-21-2011 at 09:01 AM.

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