Suspended for Otter Nonsense

[HyoMinPark]

Oh, I apologize I wasn't saying other people should just sit back and accept what happened. Just stating that's how I'm personally taking it in regards to what happened with me. Apologies it's late and I'm a little loopy from lack of sleep, so that was my bad that that intention did not come across. My bad. D:

The whole thing was definitely confusing though, and that's one of the reasons I feel a mod post on the matter would have helped stem the sudden ban wave. While you can interpret a mass cull of otter memes to mean that the mods aren't happy with them, as is what happened at one point, if someone doesn't notice that and there's no official word on what's happening you're just left floundering in the dark with no way of knowing what to expect. The mods on this forum almost never pop in to big kerfuffles like that to actually tell people what they're doing wrong, and while often that might be okay, in this case it seems to have lead to a good chunk of the people who posted in that thread receiving temporary bans. Bans for actions that were perfectly acceptable in other threads at that. Which leads me to wonder if a report threshold was hit or some other invisible trip for automated flagging.

What we really need is transparency going forward. No more guess work as to what the mods are thinking. It seems like the mods assumed everyone who was banned knew what they were doing, but given the posts here I'd say most of us are just grasping at straws trying to put the whole picture together. That's not effective modding. All that does is make people leery of posting at all when the ban is lifted and just as likely to re-offend because they didn't get the full picture they were owed either before the ban was brought down as a warning, or after. Which is why a warning is usually pretty essential in modding, especially when it's on this kind of scale.

I dunno I respect the work the mods have to do as I'm a moderator myself in other places. Yet I really have to question a lot of their methods when we have incidences like this were a good handful or more people were banned and all only have small clues as to why.

I agree with this post, and it was worded far more eloquently than I think I could have managed while discussing this particular situation.

[CorbinDallas]

What we really need is transparency going forward. No more guess work as to what the mods are thinking. It seems like the mods assumed everyone who was banned knew what they were doing, but given the posts here I'd say most of us are just grasping at straws trying to put the whole picture together. That's not effective modding. All that does is make people leery of posting at all when the ban is lifted and just as likely to re-offend because they didn't get the full picture they were owed either before the ban was brought down as a warning, or after. Which is why a warning is usually pretty essential in modding, especially when it's on this kind of scale.

This is my major beef with the moderation procedures (if you can call them that), they aren't transparent enough and even worse, inconsistent. I partially blame the community itself for this, I believe that if we weren't so coddled all the time and people didn't cry foul at the slightest of jabs and act like they would call the police for name calling, then mods wouldn't be so heavy with the banhammer.

There's a reason why a lot of people I know prefer to discuss the game on alternative platforms, it's because the community here is so averse to anything that doesn't include them and cries foul at every possible opportunity that they aren't the centre of attention. Discussion about Savage or raiding? It gets spun into talk of "elitists" and such. It goes both ways too and isn't exclusive to just one topic. Add to that how it feels like you can't even breathe anymore without being reported and banned around here, then it's no wonder people go to Reddit/Discord/insert unofficial space.

Another issue is how people who are permanently banned from the forums, no matter how petty (for lack of a better word) the reason, are forever silenced from giving feedback to an official source. You could have been banned from the forums 6 years ago, still be playing at the top skill level possible, know everything about the game, but be forever unable to share your opinions and suggestions to the developers because you called someone a doofus.

[Joven]

Oh, I apologize I wasn't saying other people should just sit back and accept what happened. Just stating that's how I'm personally taking it in regards to what happened with me. Apologies it's late and I'm a little loopy from lack of sleep, so that was my bad that that intention did not come across. My bad. D:

The whole thing was definitely confusing though, and that's one of the reasons I feel a mod post on the matter would have helped stem the sudden ban wave. While you can interpret a mass cull of otter memes to mean that the mods aren't happy with them, as is what happened at one point, if someone doesn't notice that and there's no official word on what's happening you're just left floundering in the dark with no way of knowing what to expect. The mods on this forum almost never pop in to big kerfuffles like that to actually tell people what they're doing wrong, and while often that might be okay, in this case it seems to have lead to a good chunk of the people who posted in that thread receiving temporary bans. Bans for actions that were perfectly acceptable in other threads at that. Which leads me to wonder if a report threshold was hit or some other invisible trip for automated flagging.

What we really need is transparency going forward. No more guess work as to what the mods are thinking. It seems like the mods assumed everyone who was banned knew what they were doing, but given the posts here I'd say most of us are just grasping at straws trying to put the whole picture together. That's not effective modding. All that does is make people leery of posting at all when the ban is lifted and just as likely to re-offend because they didn't get the full picture they were owed either before the ban was brought down as a warning, or after. Which is why a warning is usually pretty essential in modding, especially when it's on this kind of scale.

I dunno I respect the work the mods have to do as I'm a moderator myself in other places. Yet I really have to question a lot of their methods when we have incidences like this were a good handful or more people were banned and all only have small clues as to why.

No need to appologize, I was agreeing with you. Text is a fickle thing to interpret meaning.

I did see the mass deletion and by that time I was already pretty well done with posting and just wanted to see what others were doing. Even then I didn't see a ban wave coming, maybe a lockout at most.

I was actually contemplating abandoning the forums after this since I'm already a sporadic poster to begin with and recieving a questionable ban was about to keep me away for good.

[Enla]

-snip-

Gotcha! And yeah, it's especially hard when my eyes are criss crossing due to lack of sleep. lol I think I'll go to bed after this post.

-snip-

That's kinda why I'm wondering if the moderation process is partially automated? So many people got bans, and I definitely remember a few people here not stirring the pot in any way. Which begs the question. Did they get banned because they did something wrong, because the entire group was deemed guilty, or did they get a ban because a group of people was going through and reporting each post? I'm not trying to indulge in conspiracy theories or anything like that but I've seen similar systems on other forums and it /never/ ends well if that is truly the case.

Regardless the fact we even have to speculate at all is a bad sign. I have a few friends as well that also refuse to come to these forums because of the moderation practices. One even laughed without a hint of surprise when I was in chat with them and noticed the ban because this place has such a bad reputation for erroneous moderation. The fact that as you said, you have no chance to come back in some cases making it even worse. Some people do deserve instant potentially year-long bans, mind. But... Well, in my experience they rarely actually are the ones getting them.

I do hope that the mods here look at this thread and don't take it as an attack. I don't hate the moderators here, but I do think that like was stated before this is an issue that needs to be dealt with now. Rather than just slapping another bandaid on the gaping wound and pretending these forums are perfect.

[NekoHina]

Oh, I apologize I wasn't saying other people should just sit back and accept what happened. Just stating that's how I'm personally taking it in regards to what happened with me. Apologies it's late and I'm a little loopy from lack of sleep, so that was my bad that that intention did not come across. My bad. D:

The whole thing was definitely confusing though, and that's one of the reasons I feel a mod post on the matter would have helped stem the sudden ban wave. While you can interpret a mass cull of otter memes to mean that the mods aren't happy with them, as is what happened at one point, if someone doesn't notice that and there's no official word on what's happening you're just left floundering in the dark with no way of knowing what to expect. The mods on this forum almost never pop in to big kerfuffles like that to actually tell people what they're doing wrong, and while often that might be okay, in this case it seems to have lead to a good chunk of the people who posted in that thread receiving temporary bans. Bans for actions that were perfectly acceptable in other threads at that. Which leads me to wonder if a report threshold was hit or some other invisible trip for automated flagging.

What we really need is transparency going forward. No more guess work as to what the mods are thinking. It seems like the mods assumed everyone who was banned knew what they were doing, but given the posts here I'd say most of us are just grasping at straws trying to put the whole picture together. That's not effective modding. All that does is make people leery of posting at all when the ban is lifted and just as likely to re-offend because they didn't get the full picture they were owed either before the ban was brought down as a warning, or after. Which is why a warning is usually pretty essential in modding, especially when it's on this kind of scale.

I dunno I respect the work the mods have to do as I'm a moderator myself in other places. Yet I really have to question a lot of their methods when we have incidences like this were a good handful or more people were banned and all only have small clues as to why.

^^^^^ THIS! Agree 100 percent.

I used to be the moderator on one of the official NFL forums and it was a tough job. But all warnings and bans had to have reasons given and they were allowed to discuss the situation. Also that action was the final option, first threads were locked and offensive posts deleted with warnings given in the actual thread so that anyone who went back to it knew that it had been shut down and why.

I give props to anyone who steps up to be a mod. It is a hard job. But it is important to have fair, consistent and equitable moderation across the board. I know that most people do not survive a second temporary ban. It is like it is automatic that they are kicked forever, despite their standing in the community or even if they were banned unfairly. Sometimes all it takes if for a group of players with a trollish mentality to mass together and decide to report posts from a certain player that they don’t like. The person could be someone who has stood up to them or disagreed with them in debates. Even if the person never crossed a line themselves (all the while being attacked), they will be the one who gets banned if enough of the “group” decide to start reporting the player, even if the reports are garbage.

I could list a lot of examples of very unfair and extremely inconsistent moderation when it comes to bans. People can post cursing all the time and yet I know someone personally who was banned for putting wingdings ($&#*) in their post instead of using any bad words. ??? The worst part is there is no recourse. You only get form letters from SE and can never talk to a person. Plus, the permanent bans are never lifted. The forum is the only place to enter official contests, report bugs, provide feedback and participate in the questions for the producer.

There are several veteran, long-standing players who have been with the game since the beta or even before, who were very well respected members of the forum community with hundreds/thousands of posts (many upvoted or liked numerous times), and they now can no longer participate due to circumstances like I described above. They are forced to go to less savory places if they want to have somewhere to talk about the game with others. Something REALLY needs to change. I truly hope that the team is reading this thread with an open mind. I hope they understand that we do appreciate the efforts and work they do. I, for one, simply think that the whole process could be vastly improved.

Thanks for listening,
Hina

[SerLuke]

At risk of looking like I've "lost my marbles" I will say that the otter pics randomly all over the forum were getting annoying. They're cute and I'd never report anyone over it, but I was on the verge of saying something about it. Just didn't want to be grumbling over something petty.

Still. I'm gathering Luke might be one of the suspended/banned ones as a result, as I don't remember seeing him here lately, and that's a pity. The forum needs more people who try to stop arguments rather than start them.

I’m back now, I had a two week temp ban.

And thank you for the kind words that means a lot =)

[Crushnight]

Ok, so they do send emails. That's good to know. Did they say why your post violated the ToS or just that it did?

They gave me the offending post (i swore at someone in particular because they were using a homophobic derogatory term on purpose then tried to back peddle saying what they said wasn't that bad >_>), now there was more posts about said argument that also gt deleted but other than that one the rest were civil enough despite me being generally angry at them but they could have counted since i didn't just drop it etc, i only know that that post was a breach in ToS.

They do, I've been on the receiving end of a ban myself, however the email is unclear as to whether the ban is for a single post or a history of posts. They only quote a single one.

^ basically this i'm pretty sure it was just that one post for me but who knows what else might've been piled in.

[Kurando]

I’m back now, I had a two week temp ban.

Was that your first ban? Is two weeks the usual starter punishment or does it build up?

[SerLuke]

Was that your first ban? Is two weeks the usual starter punishment or does it build up?

I had gotten another two week ban previously because I had called out someone who was bragging about a scamming others with their “charming personality” or some nonsense that was my first and only other ban.

[SaberMaxwell]

I had gotten another two week ban previously because I had called out someone who was bragging about a scamming others with their “charming personality” or some nonsense that was my first and only other ban.

You survived two bans? Damn, nice. You're one of two people I know who weren't perma'd on second ban.